RHOSLC-Dusty Shelves and Dirty Secrets

Wendy (00:01.141)
Hi, welcome to We Why Whenever, I'm Wendy. We are talking about Real Housewives of Salt Lake City, season six, episode number four, Petty Little Liars. Yeah, that's about right.

Kelli (00:04.001)
I'm Kelly.

Kelli (00:16.564)
Yeah. Again, I went to watch it on Peacock and it was like episode. Yeah. So what episode is this? Right. This is seven. I actually typed in seven because of the watch what happens live. It drives me nuts.

Wendy (00:25.279)
Four, probably said eight. it's at seven.

Wendy (00:33.415)
Yeah, I know somebody somebody else was saying, Ryan Bailey, he was saying that too.

Kelli (00:39.349)
Yeah, whatever.

Wendy (00:41.479)
Yeah, we start out where we left off with a clarity lunch and Bronwyn is telling Lisa that she asked you a question and you're hurling insults referring to Whitney because Whitney's left the room. She hasn't actually left the party, but she just removed herself from the room at that point. And Lisa's like, nice twist. And Bronwyn said, no, you're hurling insults. And it's true. She is hurling insults.

Kelli (01:04.366)
She goes very low. I mean, not that they all don't, but she's just that kind of person. Like she can't articulate very well and she's not that well-spoken. So when she gets caught off guard and jammed up, that's what she does. It's very, just like Tamara. She just starts yelling insults over and over and she thinks if she's the loudest, she wins and the whole thing.

Wendy (01:23.869)
Yes, yes.

Wendy (01:31.796)
Yeah.

So Whitney and her confessional, you know said if Lisa wants to you know, clear up these allegations Really all she needs to do is answer our questions But instead she's acting like an irrational toddler and she said, you know, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna stoop to her level I'm just gonna remove myself from the situation which she did she left the room and just wait until she's she's acting like a toddler So she'll tire herself out It was funny

Kelli (01:56.942)
That was so funny. I loved Whitney's confessional look with the lime green dress. Yeah, she looked really good. That was a great look for her.

Wendy (02:02.878)
I like her in green.

Wendy (02:09.341)
Lisa then starts attacking Angie. She says, you you only own one and a half salons. Okay, this, it doesn't make sense. It just doesn't make any sense at all. I'm like, what are you talking about?

Kelli (02:16.236)
It doesn't even make sense.

Kelli (02:22.842)
And okay, so she owns three of them, which I'm sure are her and Sean together. And then she has franchises, but doesn't she make money off of the franchises? Yeah, so I mean, it doesn't even make sense.

Wendy (02:27.614)
Right.

Wendy (02:31.445)
Of she does, of course she does. Right. And Angie said she's proud of what she built and she explained it. have three and then I have the other ones are franchises.

Kelli (02:42.999)
Yeah.

Wendy (02:46.459)
Angie said, you you lie. And in her confessional, she said, I finally figured out Lisa's tactics. She lies to deflect, which I agree with, and makes everyone else her target. Because really, the whole thing that she was mad about with Angie is what Braunwyn started. Braunwyn started the whole conversation about the lawsuits, which is what we were there for, right?

Kelli (02:55.362)
Yes.

Kelli (03:06.2)
Yes.

Yes. Right, but she wanted everybody to defend her. Like she wanted everybody to shut it down. She doesn't want to be shut down when she's talking smack about everybody else. But when somebody's talking about her, she wants it to be shut down.

Wendy (03:16.402)
Right.

Right.

Wendy (03:24.073)
So then the next, yeah. No.

Kelli (03:24.396)
Like I don't even think Meredith did anything wrong on the camping trip. She said Lisa's not here to defend herself. That's all Meredith had to say.

Wendy (03:33.939)
I mean, honestly, this is episode four and Meredith has said very little, total. Even in her little one-on-ones, she's very, very quiet so far. Which honestly, I'm quite all right with. I don't, I, I, I.

Kelli (03:38.712)
Very little, very little.

Kelli (03:49.91)
I think she got a lot of heat last year because of the whole Alibaba thing, so I think she's treading very lightly. I know we'll get to it, but her daughter is gorgeous. She and Seth make very good looking kids.

Wendy (03:59.623)
Yeah, she is.

Wendy (04:04.241)
Yeah, she really is very pretty.

Kelli (04:06.37)
Yeah, I know we'll get there.

Wendy (04:08.169)
So then Angie brings out the big line, you do french fries and I do franchises. I don't know if you saw, but Wendy's jumped in on this. I am here for it. I'm so here for it. So good. So one and a half salons. I know, I think we'll be canceling our appointment and Angie's one and a half salons. I was like.

Kelli (04:17.143)
I did say it.

It was so funny. What they say won't be scheduling any appointments at Angie's hair salon.

Kelli (04:32.311)
That was actually very funny. my God.

Wendy (04:37.653)
like that is great. So then Angie brings up, like, let me ask you this, like, I invested in your son's company to support your family. I brought his product into my salon. Why aren't you spending your time, you know, promoting that and marketing that instead of, you know, trying to peddle yourself to? Yeah, yeah. I mean, and she's been working with them for 26 years. 26 years, Angie has been.

Kelli (04:59.182)
Yeah.

Kelli (05:06.52)
Who, Lisa? with Karastasi. Okay.

Wendy (05:07.475)
No, Angie. Angie. Yes. Yes. Yes. She said I've had... I know.

Kelli (05:14.574)
and Lisa loses her mind. You're questioning everything I do. Like, I was very caught off guard with that reaction from

Wendy (05:23.175)
Right. love my shiny, pretty hair. I didn't peddle it. They came to me. Okay, Lisa, come on.

And then Angie calls her son's line a sea line.

I mean, listen, it probably didn't belong on herself because it's a men's grooming law. I mean, maybe, you know, whatever.

Kelli (05:46.434)
Yeah, mean salons carry all different kinds of things, but it's all self-care. I mean, that wasn't particularly nice. But, I mean, compared to what Lisa was saying, you own one and a half of your salons. I mean, you know.

Wendy (05:48.884)
Yeah.

Right.

Wendy (05:57.619)
Right. Right. Yeah. I mean, I loved when she said it belongs in Walmart.

Kelli (06:05.006)
Yeah, I mean, listen, there's nothing wrong with Walmart. But when somebody has what they think is an upscale line, they're not going to appreciate that.

Wendy (06:14.921)
Well, after she said it belongs in Walmart, Lisa had completely lost it. She is questioning and she's pointing, you know, you're questioning every effing thing I do. And she's like pointing, literally acting like a lunatic.

Kelli (06:27.819)
Absolutely. Absolutely.

Wendy (06:30.119)
And this is when Meredith finally steps in and says, well, nobody wants to hear that their business called a C-level business. Can you just admit it wasn't nice? I'm like, that's what you have to add to this whole conversation?

Kelli (06:36.801)
You

Kelli (06:41.72)
The is, nobody's telling Lisa to not say certain things except now Heather. Heather finally chimes in. But Meredith, you're gonna tell Angie not to say what she said, but you're not gonna hold Lisa accountable for what she just said? You can't have different standards. This is the problem with what Housewives has become. There's alliances and then...

Nobody's calling anybody out or the right people aren't calling the right people out on what they're doing.

Wendy (07:15.335)
Right, no, I totally agree. So, I mean, this is what my thoughts are on Heather. Let me know what you think your thoughts are. So the fact that she jumps in with, you know, I'd like a word. I felt that you were unfairly attacked when we were camping. You you were not there to defend yourself. You know, I understand your desire to your name, but for you to go low and to count her franchises and count her money, and then Angie, you just flipped it right back on her about her sons and their sea lion. I feel like...

This is what Heather likes to do. These like rehearsed speeches, her like monologues where she's the one who's gonna like rally the girls around her and you know, she's the one who's gonna bring it all back around. Like this is what she does every season. Don't you think?

Kelli (07:48.146)
100%.

Kelli (07:55.021)
Mm-hmm.

Kelli (08:00.78)
And I totally agree with you about the rehearse. Like receipts, timelines, you know, she definitely stays up all night thinking of what she can say and rehearses it. Yeah. Definitely.

Wendy (08:03.603)
Yeah, right.

Wendy (08:11.253)
I think this whole thing, yeah, think this whole thing was totally rehearsed. know, Heather says to Lisa, you're fearless, you're a strong person. you're on someone's side, you're invincible, but when you're against somebody, you feel completely vulnerable. I was like, oh God. And then Lisa's like, I know. And Heather's like, I get it, I felt vulnerable. And Lisa's like, well, I feel vulnerable too. And Mary said, well, you.

Kelli (08:29.96)
Thanks, Captain Obvious.

Kelli (08:38.414)
You're like, maybe they had this whole thing planned out before they even got there, she and Heather, Lisa and Heather.

Wendy (08:44.625)
Yeah, I mean, maybe they did. Maybe they did. Because that's when she starts crying. Like then she starts crying and Mary's like, well, you don't you don't show it that you feel vulnerable. But then she goes with her other classic line. Well, I grew up so different than everybody else. So it looks differently to you guys, but I'm very vulnerable. What?

Kelli (09:03.33)
Why did she say she grew up different? Like, didn't she grow up on Long Island?

Wendy (09:06.387)
Because the same reason that she lives a different life than everybody else, she's doing big things. Like, that's what I'm saying.

Kelli (09:13.682)
Yeah, she's really ridiculous. Yeah, for sure. She's just ridiculous.

Wendy (09:22.269)
And then even the, know, Angie, love you. You know, I'm very sensitive when it comes to you. And, you know, she puts her hands in the air. She's like, you know, I'm being extremely vulnerable. I'm like, my God, this is such bad acting.

Kelli (09:36.427)
yeah, like it, it did a total 180 and then Angie was like, and I love you too. Like it's like, what just happened?

Wendy (09:41.895)
Right, right.

I know, I know. And they kumbaya, right? like, they end it, right? They hug each other, they end it. like, okay, good, we're done with this. Yeah, no, no. And it's just, honestly, it's exhausting. It really is exhausting.

Kelli (09:57.111)
Right. We think we're going to move on. We are not done.

Kelli (10:05.774)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah.

Wendy (10:11.527)
I don't know. I don't know. I-

Kelli (10:13.324)
No, like even she and Bronwyn just try to, know, she knows she hurt her, Lisa, they know they hurt each other and then, you so they seem, you know, they seem okay.

Wendy (10:21.909)
Yeah.

Wendy (10:26.567)
It's honestly, mean, my literal notes are I call bullshit. I just call bullshit. I feel like this whole, that whole clarity lunch was totally staged. I thought Heather kind of rehearsed this on her own, but maybe you're right. Maybe her and Lisa got together and said, yeah, like this is what we're gonna do. I mean, if they really were moving on, that would be great. But then, well, we'll get there.

Kelli (10:30.893)
Yeah.

Kelli (10:44.046)
That's what it sounds like.

Kelli (10:48.056)
Mm-hmm.

Kelli (10:54.19)
Yeah, we'll get there.

Wendy (10:57.183)
So then she says to Bronwyn that those two need to do, they have more work to do, but she wants to have a one-on-one conversation with Bronwyn, which I kind of agree. But Bronwyn says, listen, I want to say this clearly in front of everybody. I did not take any pride in talking about this stuff. I just want you to stop talking about me. I know that I hurt you. I know that you hurt me. And when you're ready to say that, I think that's when we can move forward.

Kelli (11:07.98)
Yeah. Yeah.

Wendy (11:26.131)
And I'm glad that she said that. only, honestly, feel like her and Mary, I mean, I think Mary says what she means too, but I feel like the other ladies just don't. They say what is called for at the moment for the scene.

Kelli (11:34.83)
Yes.

Kelli (11:42.72)
Right, definitely for the scene. Yes. Yes.

Wendy (11:44.945)
Right? Like Bronwyn really, I really, believed when she said that, like, listen, and even when she admits like, you know, I went in hard on you, you know, I tried, I was hurting you. The things I said were hurtful.

You know, Lisa will never admit that. Like she will never, you know, they do their toast to friends. Their luncheon is over. Then we see Seth, Meredith and Chloe at the Meredith Marks store. And they're discussing how they're going to redo the store. So it's like a little jewelry store in the front. And then you go through this like speak easy door and it becomes a caviar lounge. guess she's really doing well with her caviar, which is great.

Kelli (12:27.406)
Yeah.

Wendy (12:29.077)
I think that sounds like a cool idea. I wonder if there's going to be like cocktails with the caviar.

Kelli (12:35.0)
would imagine so. mean, I don't know. I mean, I don't know how liquor licenses work in Utah, but did you see where Heather McDonald was like, Meredith, like, I forget what she was spending. Cause I guess Meredith did like a tour of her rented house right now.

Wendy (12:50.865)
$70,000 a month. I mean, I saw her tour.

Kelli (12:52.462)
And Heather was calling her out like, don't make that much money. And Meredith kind of clapped back and was like, don't worry about what I made, you know, I'm fine. She did. It was pretty good too. Listen, I don't blame her. Who the fuck is Heather McDonald to say she can't afford that? And listen, by the way, she's only renting the house three months out of the year. We know she doesn't live there otherwise.

Wendy (13:03.028)
didn't know Meredith clapped back.

Wendy (13:19.221)
Yeah, but still $70,000 a month for three months.

Kelli (13:21.78)
I think it's ridiculous, but who knows? Who knows if it even cost that.

Wendy (13:24.157)
I think honestly, yeah, mean, listen, Heather's Heather. Well, that's what they said. I mean, it looks gorgeous. I don't know.

Kelli (13:32.63)
Yeah. And that's in very expensive area, obviously. So, I mean, but I'm not a huge Meredith fan, but I'm glad she clapped back.

Wendy (13:37.929)
Yeah.

Wendy (13:44.743)
No, I would too. I mean, you have to, right?

Kelli (13:47.214)
Yeah.

Wendy (13:50.239)
So Heather and Mary then go out to lunch and Heather said that she drank too much yesterday. This was so funny. She's like, yeah, I drank your tequila. I drank Angie's tequila. And Mary's like, I don't like the taste of tequila. It tastes like medicine. She's like, it tastes like hot. But first she said medicine, then she said it tastes like a hospital. Heather says, so hospital has a taste? Mary said, well, all smells have a taste. Like, you know, when someone passes gas and

Kelli (14:06.828)
Hospital she said it tastes the cost. okay.

Wendy (14:19.059)
Your mouth is open. was like, Barry. She really does. She really does. Honestly, I like it though. You know, I like it. Then we see Whitney and Justin and they're putting up her stripper pole again.

Kelli (14:22.462)
Yeah, she says some off-the-wall stuff sometimes.

Me too.

Kelli (14:39.896)
They're so cringy these two. They're so incredibly cringy.

Wendy (14:47.825)
Yeah, it's a little, I mean, it's a little much.

Kelli (14:49.836)
And then she's talking about how it was like the talk in the pickup line at school that she had a pole in her house. Like, listen, I am a let your flag fly kind of girl. I don't care what you do, do you? But I don't know if that's something to be proud about that your kids, friends, parents, like your kids, schoolmates. So basically everyone in the school knows that you're swinging on a pole.

Wendy (15:13.855)
Yeah.

Kelli (15:19.254)
I mean, I don't know. It's not a big deal to have a poll in your house at all, but I don't know if I would be boasting about the fact that people were talking about it. Like, I don't think it's a flex.

Wendy (15:29.831)
I definitely don't think it's a flex. No, I think, yeah, I think that she just likes to put a little bit of shock value out there. you know, no, it is. I agree with you, I agree. Bronwyn meets up with Lisa at Lisa's Vita Tequila Lounge and we find out that she had launched that last June. I'm glad we got that information because we had seen it already earlier.

Kelli (15:31.724)
Yeah, like keep it private.

Kelli (15:38.634)
It's, but it's not, it's like cringe.

Wendy (15:59.761)
And, but I was like, where did that come from? Like I had no idea. you know, she clarified that, that she's had people there for Sundance and on stage and stuff.

Kelli (15:59.918)
Yeah.

Kelli (16:07.192)
Yeah.

Wendy (16:09.043)
I mean, I don't know if it's a partnership with a local business that they're calling the Vita Tequila Lounge. Do you know what I mean? Like, Jack's Bar? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Maybe. Yeah. Yeah.

Kelli (16:17.632)
Yeah, like a kind of like a Jack's thing. Exactly. Where he just had the back patio. Like maybe they just have her sign up. You know what I mean?

Wendy (16:32.223)
So Lisa admits that she really wanted to talk to Bronwyn one-on-one because the things that she had to talk to her about were personal and private. And Lisa starts with saying that damaging things were said, and I'm sorry about those. And she said she really thinks it's about, stems from you being hurt about our friendship and me being hurt about our friendship. I think what...

Lisa was saying, and I think that this is true kind of where it did really go off the rails is when Bronwyn wound up confiding in her about Gwen's father. And then she realized that Lisa knows the grandparents and I guess she had asked Lisa to have a conversation with them and obviously didn't go very well. But then when Lisa made those comments that on national TV that they said that

Kelli (17:09.528)
Yeah.

Wendy (17:28.537)
she said that she had a miscarriage, know, those are horrible. Those are horrible words to hear. she was on, like, like Bronwyn said, she was on the, right, right, right. And to put that out there in the public, like that's horrible.

Kelli (17:36.098)
Yeah. Because you're insinuating that she lied. That she faked.

Kelli (17:50.456)
when you know her daughter?

Wendy (17:52.189)
Right, right. It was, it really was. And I think that's what for Bronwyn made her lose all respect for her friendship with Lisa when those words came out.

Kelli (17:53.752)
That was really bad.

Kelli (18:06.038)
And you know, listen, we all know people like this. I think Lisa's one of these people, when they're caught doing something wrong and they really know they did something wrong, they can apologize. So it's like they get even meaner. Like they push you away. They do something to push you away even more because they know they were wrong. They can apologize. They just don't have it in them. But it seems like she's getting there.

Wendy (18:29.62)
Right.

Well, that's the whole thing is you're exactly right because that's when she really started going in heavy on her with everything else. And she really started attacking her first for the jewelry. You didn't buy the jewelry and they contacted me and then what she confided in her about her American Express bill and Todd. And she just weaponized information.

Kelli (18:39.192)
Yep.

Kelli (18:43.01)
Yeah.

Kelli (18:57.624)
For sure. Yep.

Wendy (18:58.897)
Instead of just, had she just apologized, like when it happened, like I feel like this wouldn't have grown into this, what it is at this point, right?

Kelli (19:07.316)
No, not at all. Right. Right.

Wendy (19:13.195)
so.

Kelli (19:14.246)
And Bram and like, she said that she and Gwen are in a good place about where they're at with Gwen's father's parents and they feel like they can move on now and it's over. So clearly this young girl does not have a relationship with her grandparents.

Wendy (19:24.093)
Right.

Right.

Wendy (19:36.115)
Right. But she's okay with that and that's really all that matters, right? Right.

Kelli (19:39.65)
That's all that matters, for sure.

Wendy (19:44.989)
And listen, even liked, and this is yet another thing I really like about Bronwyn. She's like, I wanna be really clear. At the beginning, what happened, like, I am grateful that you even went and spoke to them and that you jeopardized your relationship with them. I had nobody to talk to about this. You were the only person that I ever even talked to about this. And Lisa's like, no, I know that you even texted me that. So.

The that, honestly, the fact that she had already texted her that and then Lisa still did what she did just kind of blows my mind. But that's what I like about Bronwyn is one, she is very articulate. She's very calm when she speaks to somebody, even if it's negative, whatever it is, she's very matter of fact about it.

Kelli (20:18.806)
Yeah, I know.

Kelli (20:36.236)
Yeah, she's rational.

Wendy (20:38.439)
Yeah. Yeah, she really is.

So they both apologize. They agree to not speak about each other's husbands because that's Lisa's gripe that you speak about John. She never, what did she say about John? I never heard her say anything about John.

Kelli (20:53.496)
I don't think she was the one who said something about John, unless we're missing something. Somebody said something about John, but I thought that was Meredith or Angie. Angie said the thing last year about John.

Wendy (20:55.461)
No, I don't either. No.

Wendy (21:10.471)
So then Braun went after they, know, they they're, they cheers and they're okay. She's telling Lisa that, you know, Gwen's still at home and her boyfriend moved in and she's like, my mom is living there too. And she's telling her that, you know, her and Gwen had a disagreement the other day and that really like triggered her mom, which she was surprised to see because her mother was never like that with her. And we see it now, her mother still is not like that with her.

Kelli (21:36.43)
Her mother. We could do a whole show on her.

Wendy (21:40.243)
We really could. We really could.

Wendy (21:45.801)
Kelli (21:45.967)
Yeah, and she said she's trying to be less rigid because she doesn't want to be like her mom. I don't blame her either for crying out loud. And I don't like to talk about people's parents, but this woman should not be on a reality TV show. Her mother should not be on reality TV. She is doing her mother no favors by putting her on that camera.

Wendy (21:53.502)
Right, don't blame her.

Wendy (21:57.715)
No.

Wendy (22:13.557)
I mean, let's hope that she is actually. Let's hope that her mother sees this.

Kelli (22:20.238)
I don't know if her mother's the self-reflective type, but I hope I'm wrong.

Wendy (22:24.093)
Yeah, I do too. I hope that she does. I mean, my next note was I really hope this lasts, but I have a feeling it doesn't.

Kelli (22:26.263)
I hope I'm wrong.

Kelli (22:33.783)
with Mary and Brahman. I mean, Lisa and Brahman.

Wendy (22:35.317)
at at Embraunment, yeah. Next we see Mary and her cousin Big Joe and they arrive at the Faith Temple Pentecostal Church and Mary is dressed in her regal purple, Birkin and all. I mean, she was very purple-ed out.

Kelli (22:38.689)
I'll see.

Kelli (22:54.188)
I forgot to look that up because I know that the colors mean something. I don't know if that's all. mean, I Catholics a little bit different. It's all Christian though. I don't know if cat, if purple means ordinary time. Ordinary time is when there's not something major going on like, you know, lent or, Advent, you know, so I forgot, I forgot to look that up. If, if what purple meant.

Wendy (23:03.697)
Right, right.

Wendy (23:12.351)
Mm-hmm.

Wendy (23:18.578)
Right, right.

Wendy (23:22.453)
I bet you it does. I bet you it does mean something. So she's saying that the church was remodeled. It's funny because Heather McDonald talks about this too. And she's talked about it for a while. She went to this church. Right, she went there when it was closed. So they say that it was remodeled, but I'll be honest with you, it didn't really look any different.

Kelli (23:25.294)
Mm-hmm.

Kelli (23:37.79)
She went there, right? Yeah, I remember that. Yeah.

Kelli (23:48.618)
She said are these new pews and he said some of them. So I guess their remodel meant like just like zhuzhed it up and like fix things that needed to be fixed.

Wendy (23:51.699)
Did they look new?

Wendy (23:59.709)
I don't know. To me, it didn't look like it was remodeled. I think that that is a cover for it because I think that there was a scandal there. I think that there was a reason they were closed. And I don't think we're ever going to talk about it, but I'm OK with that because I really don't want to talk about it.

Kelli (24:03.896)
Yeah.

Kelli (24:12.536)
their hat.

Kelli (24:19.5)
I don't want to know either. Yeah, I don't, you know.

Wendy (24:23.421)
I thought that picture of her grandmother hanging on the wall with Jesus, I don't know, a little interesting. But okay.

Kelli (24:34.616)
she thought very highly of herself, the grandmother.

Wendy (24:37.197)
Yes, yes she did. So when she's talking to Big Joe, in her confessional, she's like, know, Big Joe's family and you know, he's a general contractor here. So he kind of like, you know, takes his time and milks it. She's like, it took him a whole year to put in new floors upstairs. was like, okay, okay, Big Joe.

Kelli (24:59.059)
That may or may not be true. Maybe like you said, they weren't renovating and they were trying to wait out a scandal and they're and Big Joe's taking the fall down. Big Joe's the fall guy.

Wendy (25:01.097)
you

Wendy (25:07.789)
Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Yeah. So she's talking to him and she says, know, Robert's, her son Robert's even excited about the church reopening and know, Big Joe points to the altar. He's like, well, I remember when he first started walking right over there and you know, Mary, she's like, yeah, yeah. You know, she remembers it also. And then he gets emotional, you know, he gets emotional. He's like, you know, how's he doing? She's like, you know,

Kelli (25:23.596)
Nah.

Wendy (25:36.405)
At least now she's like we're a hundred times closer now than I've ever been before she's like and now at least I know like I'm fully aware of what's going on so You know, she's like there's nothing she can do right? She just can be there for him at this point

Kelli (25:53.839)
Absolutely. And you know, I thought it was interesting. She said her grandmother called her and said, it's time for you to come back and be saved. guess her grandmother's health was failing, I'm sure. I think that's, I would imagine that's what prompted it because that's when I'm sure they had the discussion about she being with Robert Senior, which by the way, we did the research and.

Robert Jr. was 20 years younger than her grandmother. So I think he's only about, I know only sounds like a stretch, but he's only about 20 years older than Mary. Like he was in the middle of their ages. So it's not so outlandish. And I'm sure he wasn't like, you know, pushing her on the swings. I don't know, let's hope not. But anyway, but I was thinking to myself, like, I would imagine Robert Jr. would be next in line to take over this church.

Wendy (26:32.742)
Right.

Kelli (26:49.676)
when the time comes, right? So.

Wendy (26:49.829)
yeah. Yeah, I guess so. I guess so. I thought that when her grandmother called her, it was because she was about the same age as Robert and she was not going to church and was kind of wayward herself. And her grandmother was calling her back, like to come back. I mean, I don't know though, you could be right too. Because I mean, I think that she's, I think her hope is that once the church opens,

Kelli (27:05.908)
Maybe. Maybe you're right. Yeah, I read it.

Wendy (27:18.395)
up again and Robert does come back that he will find his way. It will help him. He'll be surrounded by a lot of, you know, a lot of people that love him, right? I would hope.

Kelli (27:22.348)
Yeah.

Kelli (27:28.866)
Yeah. Did you see her on Watch What Happens Live? I don't remember a lot. She was very funny. She was on there with Adam Pally. They were a good duo, but Andy does ask her, how is Robert Jr? And she said, I can honestly tell you, he's doing well. Because he said, I know that he just got into some trouble. She said, yep, but he had to go through it. He had to go through it to get to this point. So she said he's doing well, so.

Wendy (27:32.51)
I did not.

Kelli (27:57.485)
I was really happy to hear that. Yeah.

Wendy (27:59.391)
That's good. That's good news. And sometimes that is true. You have to fall before you can rise, you know? And sometimes you gotta fall a couple times. You know? That's honestly how life works, right? And she talks about it again, even though we all knew, you know, that her grandmother wanted her to marry her grandfather. And Robert Sr. just was carrying out the wishes of his wife. It's not like he wanted to marry Mary, but that's what...

Kelli (28:03.124)
Absolutely. Yep.

Kelli (28:11.211)
Exactly.

Wendy (28:29.331)
you know, his wife wanted, so that's what he did. But then they go on to talk about, which this part I didn't know, I mean, we knew that her mother wanted it and didn't want Mary to have it, but I didn't know she showed up at the church and they had to call the police, like in the middle of service, right?

Kelli (28:31.564)
Right.

Kelli (28:43.066)
I don't think we ever heard that before this episode. Yeah, and they escorted her out. And now, so she said now it's full circle, because now I guess her mother passed away. But you know, I do remember when the show first started, I do remember her mother putting stories out, like her mother doing interviews, right? Remember that?

Wendy (28:50.451)
Yeah.

Wendy (28:55.466)
Yeah.

Wendy (29:02.097)
Mm-hmm. Yes, yes, yes. And she said her mom walked out of her life and I gave her what she wanted. She didn't want to ever speak to me again, so I didn't. And with her mom's passing, she feels like...

Kelli (29:06.477)
Yeah.

Wendy (29:20.477)
I guess she feels like it's closed, like that chapter is closed and there's nobody else to come after her at this point, right? She's where she's supposed to be and...

Kelli (29:32.472)
I wonder if she has any siblings. I mean, I just remember her telling somebody like her mom, like there was no food in the refrigerator. Like it's, it's not like they didn't have the means. Her mother just didn't do that. Like her mother didn't provide. Her mother wasn't a mom. you know.

Wendy (29:50.685)
Yeah, I mean, it's so weird, because I don't know how much she did tell us about her mom, except for, like you said, that she wanted the church. the only thing I remember about her dad was, and I don't even know if they were still together at the time, that her dad lived by, yes, yes. Right? Yeah, that was, wasn't it Milwaukee? Didn't they go to Milwaukee?

Kelli (30:07.96)
Jeffrey Dahmer.

I don't think her parents were together, because that was like a different state.

Kelli (30:18.55)
Yes, yes, yes, Yes.

Wendy (30:20.221)
Right? So I don't know. I don't really know a lot about that, you know, how she exactly grew up, but it doesn't sound like it was great.

Kelli (30:27.054)
No, I remember her telling somebody that about her mom. Like there was no food in my refrigerator. Nobody was packing me a lunch in the morning.

Wendy (30:34.165)
you know who she told, she told Bronwyn that. Remember, yes, when Bronwyn, when Bronwyn first came in with her red heart jacket and she called it a costume. Wait, did she call it a costume? Or Brittany called it a costume. Brittany called it a costume. And Mary was afraid that Bronwyn was gonna come to her. no, was Brittany that she told it to actually. Right? It was Brittany, because she was afraid that Brittany was gonna come to her house.

Kelli (30:39.917)
Yeah.

Kelli (30:50.744)
Brittany, Brittany called it a costume.

Kelli (31:00.194)
Yeah, yes, yes.

Wendy (31:04.111)
and like with put bread in her pockets. Yes, yes. So then we see Angie's at her salon and Heather comes in because poor Angela, her cosmetology license laps. So now she has to. Okay.

Kelli (31:06.036)
Food in a burst or something. Yeah. Crazy.

Kelli (31:20.558)
Okay, I gotta tell you something. This is very odd to me, things are different in Utah, but you don't have to have a license to own a salon. I mean, you know that, your parents own a salon. However, if you're a hairdresser, it's only a matter of paying every year. You just pay. But you have to let that lapse in New Jersey, because unfortunately I'm an idiot and I did it. If you let it lapse for five years, you have to be retested.

Wendy (31:31.473)
No. No, no, you don't.

Kelli (31:51.151)
So that means she just didn't pay for five years? Like, why would you do that? Unless she's just not a hairdresser, but I don't know why, like, why would you pretend you are? You don't have to be a hairdresser to own a salon. Obviously you're very successful.

Wendy (31:59.103)
I mean.

Wendy (32:05.321)
think she probably just didn't pay for five years because she wasn't doing hair. Like she just wasn't thinking, you know? The weird thing is because her husband's a hairdresser, right? So I wonder if he let his labs. Probably not because he's probably still actually doing hair. I don't know that she actually does hair anymore, but anyway, so she has to retest. So she was practicing on Heather, putting perm rods in.

Kelli (32:07.96)
So weird to me. Yeah.

Kelli (32:14.199)
Right.

Probably not.

Kelli (32:30.338)
And by the way, if that were a real practical test for cosmetology, she would have failed because those things were so crooked. They were like hanging off of Heather's head.

Wendy (32:39.99)
I didn't even notice. they're supposed to be straight, I guess. okay.

Kelli (32:45.218)
Yes, tight, tight.

Wendy (32:53.621)
So, but the tea she brings up is that the lady that came into her salon the other day, the very pretty young, and she was very pretty, and she said, well, Lisa's assistant, and she wanted me to stop by and pick up the fresh wolf products. And Angie's like, wait, what? okay. So, of course they weren't on the shelf. They were downstairs in the basement, which I would expect because they had been there for...

Kelli (33:03.694)
Mm-hmm.

Wendy (33:22.661)
Was it two years or three years?

Kelli (33:24.654)
Yeah, but why weren't they on the shelf? Like my feeling is, did Heather somehow find out that they weren't on the shelf and that's why she sent someone? Lisa, sorry. Why, keep calling Lisa Heather tonight. I mean, why would you just out of the blue send somebody there for that?

Wendy (33:34.271)
You mean Lisa.

Wendy (33:38.641)
I don't know.

Wendy (33:44.009)
Well, because Angie made it known at the luncheon that she spent money and that they were at her salon. So she assumed if they were at her salon, they were on the shelf, but it, well, because probably, because they probably weren't selling. And she's like, why am I keeping these up here? you know, yeah, I mean, I would say shelf space is kind of a premium. And if it's not a product you're believing or you're pushing, why have it out?

Kelli (33:55.127)
Right, like, and why weren't they? Like, if you're complaining, then why aren't they on the shelf?

Kelli (34:03.052)
Yeah, I have other product that'll sell. Yeah.

Wendy (34:13.405)
I probably would have had it in the basement too.

Kelli (34:13.57)
Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Wendy (34:17.077)
So she gives it to her and of course they're dusty because they were in the basement and she gets a text message from Lisa that says, $600 Venmo cents. I can send my cleaners to help you. Sorry, your salon is so dusty. Now that is the most, first of all, her sending her is passive aggressive.

Kelli (34:44.526)
Mm-hmm.

Wendy (34:44.531)
But that text message was really passive aggressive. Actually, it was just aggressive. There was nothing passive. It was just aggressive. It was just aggressive. You just squashed everything. Why? Just why? Why do you have to do that?

Kelli (34:48.392)
Absolutely. Yeah. Passive about it. Exactly.

Kelli (35:00.876)
I don't know. It's not good. It's not a good look. It's not a good look at all.

Wendy (35:05.894)
It really isn't and honestly I thought her you should probably send Angie's responses you should probably send the $600 to the other people are claiming that you owe them money. I didn't say you owed me any money and my salon is not dusty. Your products are though because they've been sitting here for two years.

Kelli (35:22.915)
Yeah.

Wendy (35:24.725)
I I thought that was a good response. And Lisa couldn't let that go. So then she has to come back again. Well, at least I don't have to borrow money to take vacations and pay it back after using a card I should have never used to begin with. And she's like, I have no idea what she's talking about.

Kelli (35:27.822)
For sure.

Kelli (35:41.228)
Yeah, that sounds like a lie to me. It doesn't seem to me like Sean and Angie are hurtin' at all.

Wendy (35:47.061)
No, no it doesn't. And then Heather's like, well, what could that possibly be? like, and this, this is what I think. I think it's going to come up again because Heather's asking these questions. Like, I think that Heather knows what it is. I think Heather knows what it is. I think that, you know, I think that Lisa already had this conversation with Heather. think when Heather was sitting there, she knew that this was coming.

Kelli (36:05.755)
I'm sure she does. She probably does.

Kelli (36:11.658)
Exactly.

Wendy (36:16.935)
Angie's like, thought, you we left on a great note and Heather's like, I thought you did also. But obviously, no. I mean, listen, if I was Angie at this point, I would just coexist with her and I wouldn't engage. That's what I would do.

Kelli (36:23.936)
now.

Kelli (36:31.584)
Yeah, but the thing is is with Lisa, if you don't engage, she'll come up with something. She'll say something. She'll do something.

Wendy (36:40.989)
Yeah, I don't know.

Kelli (36:42.479)
I think, I don't know. But the next thing that happens is just.

Wendy (36:48.689)
Whitney meets up with Brittany at the plant store.

Kelli (36:51.854)
Yeah, I mean, I mean, they, you know, they apologize to each other, which is great, but.

Wendy (36:53.513)
Ha!

Wendy (36:57.791)
Right, right.

Kelli (37:00.814)
Whitney trying to explain to Brittany that her daughter just wants to be a priority and Brittany's not, like she can't grasp it, man. She can't grasp it at all. Like maybe just take a step back from Jared, what is his name? Jared? Yeah. And she's like, oh, I don't know if I could do that. I mean, she's very codependent, very needy on a man.

Wendy (37:11.305)
No.

Wendy (37:19.199)
Jared. Yeah, Jared.

I

Wendy (37:31.571)
Yeah, I think that's why her kids don't talk to her. I think that's why, I mean, her kids don't want to have anything to do with her.

Kelli (37:37.551)
Yeah, but I guess I think we talked about it last season. Like I guess when you're Mormon, part of that is, you know, growing up thinking that your worth comes from being a wife, more so than being a mom, it seems, right? But man, like, you gotta break out of that. You're gonna, I mean, God forbid, you don't wanna lose your relationship with your kids altogether. I guess they live with their dad.

Wendy (37:50.321)
Right, right.

Wendy (37:54.515)
Yeah.

Wendy (38:06.293)
They must. I mean, yeah, they must is my thought. I mean, even when Whitney tells her that, you know, for her daughter she should try, like, you know, even like 30 days, you know, Britney's like, well, that's a big ask. I'm like, what? 30 days?

Kelli (38:07.511)
Yeah.

Kelli (38:19.916)
Yeah, that's a big ask.

Wendy (38:26.517)
Whitney has to explain to her that her daughter should come first even as an adult. And by the way, her daughter's not an adult. Her daughters are young. Yeah, she's not an adult. Whitney goes on to say, know, like she's had ups and downs with her mom and she still loved her mom. She still talked to her mom.

Kelli (38:35.798)
I know, that's what's sad.

Kelli (38:47.224)
But you know, any grown woman who stands up in a group of women and is like, but guys, what about me? You have to think that maybe she has a hard time seeing past herself.

Wendy (39:01.525)
Oh my God, I mean, when you look up narcissist in the dictionary, it is her picture. is 100 % her picture.

Kelli (39:06.444)
Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, this is who we're talking about, but her poor daughters.

Wendy (39:13.073)
I know. I feel bad for them. I really do.

Kelli (39:15.938)
Yeah.

Wendy (39:18.517)
So then we see, oh, another tough scene. Bronwyn and her mom, Muzzy, are talking. Gwen and-

Kelli (39:21.623)
Kelli (39:24.984)
What did you think about the whole thing when her daughter and the boyfriend said they were going bowling and she's like, no, they're not. No, they're not. So what do they just go like hang out by themselves somewhere?

Wendy (39:35.721)
Something. Yeah. Well, she, I mean, they kind of admitted it to her is what she said. She's like, they said that they're in a bowling league. And I was like, there's no bowling leagues around here. It's just, you know, they do something every Wednesday, whatever it is. It's not bowling, but it's their private time together. You know?

Kelli (39:45.164)
You

Kelli (39:50.882)
Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Wendy (39:55.725)
And Brahman says to her mom after they leave and they had that whole conversation, you know, can you imagine if I asked you if my boyfriend could move in here when I was her age and Muzzy said, well, it wouldn't happen. This is just heartbreaking for me to really watch what Brahman has to go through with her mother. I mean, in her confessional, she says, you know, Gwen is close to the same age as she was when she got pregnant. And

Kelli (40:16.258)
Yeah.

Wendy (40:25.521)
having her mother there judging her the way she parents Gwen is bringing back how she felt when she was pregnant with Gwen way back when. And we hear the story at the Gap and I'm just like, you have got to be kidding me.

Kelli (40:43.596)
Yeah, like she basically told the sales lady she's not buying anything for that grandchild. This I'm buying for my other daughter's kid. And the sales person's like, do you want to get some? No.

Wendy (40:56.285)
Like, how can you be that way? Like, I don't get it.

Kelli (41:00.942)
I, and I, like when, Gwen, so her mother said that Gwen is following Bronwyn's example and she wasn't saying it in a nice way, that's for sure. And then Muzzy says Bronwyn's way of parenting doesn't work. So Bronwyn says, well, did your way of parenting work?

Wendy (41:11.057)
No.

Wendy (41:21.534)
Right.

Kelli (41:23.094)
Like, the mother is insisting that tough love is the only way, but it didn't work. I'm not saying that Brahmin having Gwen was a mistake. I would never say, know, a surprise for sure. But your way of parenting, you were trying so hard to prevent something from happening that happened anyway. So clearly your way of parenting didn't work. It might've worked for your other children.

Wendy (41:35.605)
No, no. Yeah.

Kelli (41:50.809)
But we say that all the time. You can't parent all your kids the same way. But this woman is, this woman is awful.

Wendy (41:55.793)
No, you can't.

Wendy (42:00.977)
No, she really is. mean, the point Bronwyn was making is like, you know, your biggest concern was like, you didn't want me having sex. you know, news flashed, well, I did have sex and I wound up having a baby by myself. And, and Muzzy's like, but never once did I think that you would, you know, drink alcohol, have sex, pre-marital sex, smoke.

I would never think, because you were taught not to do those things, so why would you do those things?

Wait, what? I mean, seriously? I mean...

Kelli (42:34.572)
Yeah, it must be nice living in that fairy tale you live in, Muzzy. My God. and then she says, like, she's trying to explain to her mother, like, how awful her pregnancy experience was, really. And her mother says, did you ever think about how horrible it was for me?

Wendy (42:49.64)
Right.

Wendy (42:54.471)
Yes! I- I- Like, another narcissist. Another narcissist. Seriously.

Kelli (42:56.96)
I mean, yeah, we went through it with my family. I mean, of course, then it was a lot different. It's not like today, but of course parents were going to be disappointed if something like this happened. They were gonna be scared, really, because the disappointment only comes from fear that their kid's not gonna be able to do this, right?

Wendy (43:22.984)
Right. Right.

Kelli (43:26.656)
I mean...

I can't even like, just, the woman's horrible. She's just horrible.

Wendy (43:38.389)
She really is. She really, and she doesn't even see it because like you said, it was all about her. I taught you this. Of course you're going to do this. Well, okay, you had a hard, well, how do you think I, I mean, how do think it was for me? I was embarrassed, ashamed, we had to hide you. Wait, wait, what? How did this become about you?

Kelli (43:45.356)
Yeah.

Kelli (44:03.33)
then what she says about foster care, if she didn't watch her, is that what she said? If she didn't watch Gwen, she would have wound up in foster care. And Brahman's like, no, I would have gotten another job. I'm so sorry that you had to help out and, know, I mean, listen, it's not the most ideal situation, but this is what you do for your kids. If you have the means to, you should be thankful you had the means. A lot of people can't help their children like this.

Wendy (44:07.134)
Wendy (44:13.375)
Yep.

Right.

Kelli (44:33.41)
but want to. They have to work. They're not available to watch their grandkids, but they wish they were.

Wendy (44:34.887)
Right, no, absolutely. Right. Yeah, exactly. She made it sound like, and this is where Gwen was like, she made it sound like she was just dropping Gwen off and going out and partying. And Gwen's, and Braun was like, listen, I was at work. I mean, what are you talking about?

Kelli (44:48.182)
Right.

Kelli (44:57.358)
She's very narrow-minded, this woman.

Wendy (44:59.56)
Yeah.

Kelli (45:01.536)
And then she says, just because I don't say you're so wonderful doesn't mean I don't think it. Like basically she doesn't want Brahman to think she's too good.

Wendy (45:12.73)
And she even said that!

Kelli (45:14.331)
She's horrendous. She needs to get her mother out of that house immediately.

Wendy (45:20.499)
I know. I know.

Kelli (45:22.924)
I can't believe she even let her move in.

Wendy (45:25.237)
So, and then Muzzy even says to her, well, you never wanted her to be adopted. It was always, I'm keeping her. Okay, so what is wrong with that? She wanted to keep her.

Kelli (45:32.974)
Right.

Kelli (45:39.672)
terrible.

Wendy (45:44.397)
It was horrible. Honestly, it was very hard to watch. I actually, mean, this is the fourth episode. don't even want to see her the rest of the season.

Kelli (45:47.404)
very hard to watch.

Kelli (45:54.028)
No, me neither. I really hope we don't see a lot of her at all. Yeah.

Wendy (45:57.985)
It's bad. It's really bad. feel honestly, I feel so much empathy for Ronwyn for having to have grown up with this and now at this point in her life to, I don't know.

Kelli (46:11.712)
I know. It's like you can't even find words.

Wendy (46:15.099)
No, you're honestly, it's, it's yeah, I don't know. Okay, then we see Mary and Meredith and Angie go out for coffee. And Angie's telling Meredith what happened with Lisa and the assistant coming to pick up, you know, the fresh wolf products. And you know, then she gets the mean text message. And of course, Meredith knew about this, I'm sure. Meredith's response is, well, perhaps she needs a little grace because of everything that ties back to the kids.

Kelli (46:44.568)
It was about the kids.

Wendy (46:46.459)
I mean, you know, we get a little aggressive when it's about our kids. Wait, no. Come on. You're the one who made it about the kids.

Kelli (46:55.746)
Yeah, because it wasn't about the kids. It was about the fact that Lisa was peddling some other product and not her own kids' product. So it wasn't about the kids, it was about Lisa's behavior.

Wendy (47:02.503)
Right. Right.

Wendy (47:06.855)
Yeah. But then Angie brings up, listen, I don't want to hurt you, but at a time when you and I were really not that good, Lisa was calling me and encouraging me to dig up information about family members and relatives of yours. Listen, I don't think Angie's saying this unless that she has receipts for it.

Kelli (47:27.094)
No, I totally believe you. I mean, I totally agree. I wrote the same thing. I don't personally agree with Angie doing this. I think this is very messy. However, I don't think Angie would have said anything if it weren't true. She must have receipts.

Wendy (47:37.519)
I do too.

Wendy (47:46.569)
That's my thought. I think it's messy. don't agree with it either. I think it's not necessary because honestly,

Kelli (47:52.247)
Especially when Meredith says, you know, I have to say something. And Angie's like, absolutely. Like not a hesitation. So for sure, I believe this is true.

Wendy (48:03.125)
and I believe she has, like I said, the receipts to back it up.

Kelli (48:08.078)
Mm-hmm.

Wendy (48:10.078)
I don't know. I'm so honestly sick of this. can't, but I think Meredith and Lisa are still good today, you know.

Kelli (48:21.558)
Yeah. That was one other thing. Andy asked Mary, I watched what happens live. He said, did you see the meme of, know, the picture of you, looking at Bronwyn at that girl's house? I forget her name at that party when Bronwyn was basic. Yeah. Amy, was basically eating, eating Lisa up, going at her. And Mary said, of course I saw it. And he said, what was going through your mind? She said, get her.

Wendy (48:39.985)
Amy, socialite Amy.

Kelli (48:51.48)
get her Bronwyn. So I don't, you know, it's, I forget how close Mary and Angie are, which is probably why Mary would feel that way. And let's face it, Mary's been on the show since the beginning. So she's well aware of Lisa's MO.

Wendy (49:04.371)
Yeah. Yeah.

Wendy (49:14.131)
Yeah, exactly, exactly. So, you know, that's where it ends on the show, but then we see scenes for next week and all the ladies are sitting down at a table and yelling and screaming at each other. I'm like, like...

Kelli (49:26.35)
Great, can't wait.

Kelli (49:31.906)
I

Wendy (49:32.501)
It's like, we can't go one episode without them all yelling and screaming at each other. I don't know. I just want this to get better. I seriously do. I don't want it to be so much screaming and yelling.

Kelli (49:48.366)
I just feel like we need a new playbook, guys. Producers of all these shows, we need a new playbook. I just don't want to see the constant fighting. All of them are now.

Wendy (50:00.125)
I I totally.

Kelli (50:02.306)
Potomac, I'm hopeful, but already Kiana's starting with Wendy. Like, it's just nonsense. It's nonsense. And they're all like that right now.

Wendy (50:15.261)
I know. We need to find a little light.

Kelli (50:18.102)
Yes, let's see some fun.

Wendy (50:20.656)
Yes, that's what I want. I want fun.

All right, we'll have to wait and see what happens, what they're fighting about next week. I guess until next time, thank you for watching and listening. Please give us five star reviews and subscribe. Bye.

Kelli (50:28.067)
Bye.

Kelli (50:36.108)
Bye.