RHOC-The HawkTua Heard ‘Round Temecula

Wendy (00:01.646)
Welcome to We Wine Whenever, I'm Wendy.

Kelli (00:04.329)
Kelly.

Wendy (00:06.094)
We are talking about Real Housewives of Orange County, season 19, episode number 10, Wine, W-H-I-N-E, or Champagne. That was a bad title, I'm sorry. It was, I don't like it. I mean, whining, like complaining, which is really a lot of what goes on. It did, yeah, I mean, I didn't like it. So I'd like to let our listeners know, if you happen to hear a cricket in the background, that's my...

Kelli (00:19.467)
don't even get it.

Kelli (00:24.649)
Yeah, but... Yeah, I guess.

Wendy (00:35.614)
That's my cricket. That's my pet cricket. I don't know where it is. It's driving me crazy. And I'm sorry. I'm sorry. It's cricket season here in Jersey.

Kelli (00:43.851)
With that said, it's definitely cricket season in Jersey. With that said, I was in the bathroom earlier and I look over and there is a bug on the door in my bathroom that I have never seen this type of bug before. I was like, what the fuck is that? And no, I didn't scream and I thought quickly enough to just grab a tissue and get it and throw it in the garbage.

Wendy (01:03.288)
to scream.

Kelli (01:14.537)
I wish I kind of took a picture of it first because I honestly, it wasn't super big, but I was like, what is that? I've never seen it before. But again, it's bug season in Jersey, so.

Wendy (01:27.574)
Yeah. You don't. You really don't.

Kelli (01:28.585)
You really never know what you're gonna get. It's not like Florida where they're like small animals, like a small kitten size, but you know.

Wendy (01:36.608)
Yeah, no, it's still scary.

Kelli (01:39.69)
Yeah.

Wendy (01:42.51)
All right, so back to Ocie. We start out with Shannon and Sophia together. And I guess Shannon's getting Botox. I'm assuming that's what those needles were in her face. I don't know. And we see Jen and Ryan and her son Dominic. They're washing the cyber truck. That's not obnoxious. I don't know what is. And talking about the wedding. He's never been to a wedding before, but he's been to a funeral. And then Jen says, well,

Kelli (01:51.48)
yeah, yeah,

Wendy (02:10.218)
It's kind of a funeral for Ryan, but a wedding for me. That's an odd conversation. You're having with your, I mean your son. Heather is opening up Fendi packages.

Kelli (02:16.841)
I thought that was kind of funny actually.

Kelli (02:23.539)
Rest in peace, Ryan's singlehood. God.

Wendy (02:26.774)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I mean, if that wasn't obnoxious, I don't know what was all those Fendi boxes. And Terry walks in.

Kelli (02:33.183)
I can't, just, really, everything is such an act with Heather. Everything. Like Terry just happened to walk in and she was unpacking her Fendi and she's like, you're not supposed to see me unpacking these. It's like, my God, everything is an act.

Wendy (02:48.174)
Yeah. So well, Shannon is at the... Yeah, we do. We do. So Tamra calls Shannon while she's at the place getting the Botox because her daughter's there with her and asks her, invites her to the private vineyard in Temecula. Shannon doesn't actually answer her and she's, you know, she takes the information and just, you know, receives the information is really where she leaves it.

Kelli (02:54.485)
Well, we see that later on in the show too.

Wendy (03:18.114)
Then we see Emily and Tamara go shopping and Emily was talking about she was doing a cheerleading competition with Annabelle and how exhausting it is because she's got to do her hair and makeup and has to get up early and is there all day. And it turns out, I didn't realize this, that Gina then meets up with Jen and Shannon and she was at the same cheerleading competition because her daughter does the same competitions that Emily's daughter does. So at least she had a friend there.

Kelli (03:34.761)
Yeah.

Kelli (03:45.461)
I remember seeing that on their social media. I remember seeing them being there together. And I thought that was so cute because I think Snooki and J-Woww wind up at the same cheering competition sometimes too. With their daughters. Yeah.

Wendy (03:49.986)
That's nice.

Wendy (03:55.886)
Oh, that's cool. Yeah, that's cool. And so Shannon is telling Gina and Jen that she got the invite to the Temeculature, but she hadn't answered yet. And she also tells them that she called her therapist on the way there to meet with them. And her therapist reminded her that she was very clear about her relationship with Tamra. And Gina and Jen are like, well, maybe you could just come for us.

So bottom line is they wind up talking her into going. I mean, you it is part of her job. So sometimes you do have to suck it up for work, right? It is her job. Tamar is telling

Kelli (04:27.157)
Yeah.

Kelli (04:37.195)
How about Tamra telling Emily that Shannon was a mess when she called her?

Wendy (04:44.16)
Yeah, it's just being me.

Kelli (04:46.283)
But she just got a facial! I look a mess after a facial too!

Wendy (04:50.582)
I do too. I do too. Well, yeah, I mean, come on. It's just mean girl behavior. It's just mean. It really is. Jen says she always has fun with Tamara until she doesn't and then it sucks. Then we see, okay, then we see Heather's doing her podcast. And she has on a guest, Dylan Mulvaney.

Kelli (04:58.889)
Yeah, totally is.

Wendy (05:20.286)
never heard of Dylan Mulvaney before, but she's a transgender female and they met on Instagram. Heather says in her confessional that she has four different kids, different genders, different sexualities, and she believes that she was given these kids for a reason. And she also says that she's concerned how her children are received and how they are perceived. I'm not going to talk a lot about this. You know, it is what it is and

I know there's a lot of strong opinions about it. I'm glad that she has this platform to do what she wants with it. you know, I think that's... Also, Dylan thanked her for playing her mom on a video. I don't know if she's a performer. I guess she's a singer. I don't know what she... I don't know who Dylan Mulvaney is. Yeah, for playing her mom because, you know, many people wouldn't even touch the trans community at her level. But because it personally...

Kelli (06:09.621)
Yeah, I mean she must be.

Kelli (06:18.281)
It's really funny because as soon as I saw this scene, I'm like, my God, now we gotta see Heather on her podcast. Like she just annoys me. But then when I saw who she was having on and their conversation and then Heather's confession, I'm like, okay. this was actually like a real moment with Heather. And it was very nice to see.

Wendy (06:37.056)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, no, it's... Yeah. This is her real life. This is... Right. This is her real life. Right.

Kelli (06:43.487)
It wasn't produced exactly, exactly. She was showing us a little snippet of her real life and I appreciated it and I enjoyed it. And listen, it's very personal for her. It was a nice interview. I didn't listen to the whole thing. I actually might. I would never listen to a podcast of Heather's otherwise, but I might listen to it because I find this Dylan Mulvaney very interesting. I just thought it was nice. It was an authentic moment with Heather, which...

Wendy (07:11.681)
I do too.

Kelli (07:11.721)
We don't, very rarely get.

Wendy (07:15.222)
Exactly. Because the next thing we get is Emily and Jen meet at the animal shelter to volunteer. Come on, are we really believing? Well, mean, cleaning up the cat litter? Come on. I mean, listen, that was so phony. You know damn well they were not really cleaning the cat litter. I mean, they probably did the three seconds that we saw them. No. No, because they're like, we did a great job. And he's like, yeah, it was OK.

Kelli (07:22.921)
That was nice too.

I that was nice.

Kelli (07:34.889)
You don't think they really were? No,

Wendy (07:41.07)
And then they said something else. like, yeah, it was all right. Like, no, he wasn't giving it to them. And then he's like, okay, your next thing is you're go outside and play with the dogs. Okay, really? I mean, come on. Listen, I'm glad that they gave that particular shelter some airtime so people can know about it and go there. But it was totally, it was just too fake for me. I don't like that kind of stuff. But they are talking, Emily is telling.

Kelli (07:49.395)
Yeah, well then.

you

Kelli (07:58.912)
Yes, yes.

Kelli (08:06.997)
See, and I thought they really, because I, mean, Emily's like, well, both of them have a lot of rescues. So I thought it was like a real, but all right, okay.

Wendy (08:14.552)
Yeah.

Wendy (08:18.22)
I mean, Emily's telling Jen about what's going on with Luke. And then she says something that I just found a little bit odd. She said that because I understand what's going on in Luke's brain, I have to regulate his emotions, so I coddle him. I thought to myself, no, it doesn't work that way. And she said that Shane thinks that it's enabling behavior and that the therapist said that

because you were the only one in the house that has a connection with him that she recommended that she hug him. mean, hugging and coddling are two totally different things. mean, a hug is a hug, right?

Kelli (08:54.761)
Right, right, right.

Wendy (08:56.846)
I understand having a child with, I'm gonna say special needs because I consider myself to have actually a child with special needs. And I understand how it affects the family, right? When you're giving all the attention to one and certain behavior that they think is manipulative or they don't agree with.

Kelli (09:10.847)
Right. Right.

Wendy (09:23.0)
and they don't agree with the way that you are handling it. I understand that, I've lived through that, right? That I totally get. But to say that you understand his brain and that it's your job to regulate his emotions, like, I mean, if you're really putting that on yourself, that is so unrealistic.

Kelli (09:28.137)
Right, for sure, for sure.

Kelli (09:41.611)
Very unrealistic. It's unattainable is what it is.

Wendy (09:45.678)
Yes, mean, you can't do that. It's a recipe for disaster. You're setting yourself up for failure. You cannot expect to regulate his emotions. And honestly, I don't think you can understand his brain. I don't. I mean, you're a lawyer. don't underthink. I get it, you're a mom. I'm a mom too, right?

Kelli (09:49.928)
No, you can't do that.

Wendy (10:10.39)
We think as a mom that like we can just love these things away. You can hug them away. You can coddle them away. If only, right? If only, but it just doesn't work that way.

Kelli (10:16.093)
If only.

Yep. It doesn't work that way. How about when she said that her other son was asking to go to therapy because he's sad about what's happening and doesn't know how to manage those feelings? mean, listen, thank God he said that to her. mean, what a smart little boy and that's sad.

Wendy (10:23.426)
That part of it I thought was real.

Wendy (10:32.877)
Yeah.

Wendy (10:37.71)
100 %

Wendy (10:45.708)
Yeah, yeah, it's very sad. like you said, now she's got that door open that he can go to therapy because it was his idea, right? And I mean, we know, I mean, I have three boys, but boys don't like to talk. They don't, generally they don't like to talk. So if you have a boy who's saying, I wanna go to therapy and I'm sad, my gosh, that is a blessing in itself, right? That's a blessing.

Kelli (10:54.015)
For sure. Yup.

Kelli (11:01.208)
Ugh. At all.

Kelli (11:11.083)
Right, right.

Wendy (11:17.216)
Emily also talks about, know, she feels, and this, think she's so being so hard on herself, but that's how moms are. She feels like she was, you know, her behavior was detrimental to her other children, because she thought that they didn't need her, but now she realizes that they do need her, but in a different way. And, you know, that's kind of what we do. Like we beat ourselves up for every decision that we've made and everything we've done. You know, we do the best we can.

Kelli (11:39.261)
It's constant. We're in a constant state of guilt.

Wendy (11:42.924)
Yeah, that's what it is. Okay, the next scene where we see Tamar's packing and talking to her daughter, Sophie.

Kelli (11:49.44)
Wait, how about when Jen says, you're gonna raise these boys and they're gonna become these big men. And Emily's like, well, they're not gonna be too big. Shane is their father.

Wendy (11:58.638)
yeah, exactly. That was good. That was good. Yeah, she is. No.

Kelli (12:04.725)
She's so funny. She is funny. I don't love her this season because of her blind loyalty to Tamra, but that was funny. That's the Emily I love.

Wendy (12:11.534)
Well.

Yes, you know, she is funny. The next scene we see is Tamra's packing and talking to her daughter, Sophie. And Sophie asks like, what, you know, what girls are going on the trip? And she's like, Jen, Shannon and Gina. And, you know, she knows that she's not getting along with Shannon, but Tamra lets her know that she got her a self-help book and it's called, How to Not Be a Miserable Cow. What?

Sophie said, that's very passive aggressive of you. I'm so glad she called her out. I'm so glad she called her out. And then she opens up the book and shows her and look, it has large letters. Sophie says, so it's just this after this with you. You're saying here you're a miserable human and you're a bitch that can't see. Here's a book with large letters for you. You can't help it be petty. Those were her exact words.

Kelli (13:01.579)
Yeah, but yet, but yet Tamra's big thing with Shannon is, why can't you just let it go? Why can't we just move on? Why can't we forget about the past? Because you keep saying shit like this about her. You keep doing shit like this. Buying her a book called How Not to be a Miserable Cow.

Wendy (13:16.046)
Yeah. It's not funny.

Wendy (13:21.91)
Right. Right.

Kelli (13:23.189)
That's why she can't move on, because you're still acting a fool.

Wendy (13:27.382)
Yeah, I loved that Sophie called her out on it though. I love that she did.

Kelli (13:31.629)
absolutely, absolutely. I guess if anybody can do it, it's the one kid of hers that's talking to her.

Wendy (13:34.921)
Wendy (13:39.878)
I think her son talks to her also. Not Ryan the other one. mean, Ryan does too, but her other son, Spencer, I think he speaks to her too. Yeah. Right, it's only one.

Kelli (13:46.091)
So she only has one kid not talking to her?

Wendy (13:52.494)
The trip is only one night. It's one night in two days. I just want everyone to like remember that. This is not like a, it's an overnight trip. That's it, one night.

Kelli (14:00.671)
Yeah, it's a beautiful house though. my God. I mean, that's what California's got over, I mean, I know there's beautiful areas in all states, but California's got some really like beautiful, beautiful areas, but like those houses, the real estate there is crazy.

Wendy (14:03.332)
my gosh, it's gorgeous. It was gorgeous.

Wendy (14:22.356)
Yes, it is crazy. So then Heather calls up Emily to invite her over. She's going to invite Gretchen over for a sleepover since those three are not going to the Vineyard trip. And okay, so you're going to split the group up again. I mean, we've done this before. Okay, we're going to do it again. We'll see. We'll see how this works.

Kelli (14:44.117)
Well, this was a part of Tamra's apology tour. The three people she's bringing, well, no, because Gina, she doesn't have any beef with, I guess Gina's like the mediator.

Wendy (14:48.011)
Right.

Wendy (14:51.788)
Well, no, she brought, she, yes, stuck in the middle kind of to try and, so they don't kill each other, right? So Gina's telling Travis that, know, Jen and Shannon's relationship with Tamar is very fragile. And she also, she says this, I feel like I'm in the middle. The next thing that she says is that, you know, the other day I told Tamar, was kind of crappy that she called out Shannon last year about her drinking. And then this year you're pulling her away to sneak away for a cocktail.

Well, Tamara says, well, you don't think she's better? That wasn't the point that she was making actually, Tamara. That was not the point that she was making. And Gina's answer is, right. And then Gina's answer is, well, I see her creeping back. then we cut to the scene and Gina goes back to say to Travis, I just don't want Tamara to say anything to Shannon that goes to upset her. Well, as soon as we saw that, we know what's gonna happen.

Kelli (15:30.015)
Right. It was about you, Tamra. It wasn't about Shannon.

Wendy (15:51.894)
And that was not what it was about. That was not what it was about.

Kelli (15:54.506)
Right. Right. It was about Tamra calling her an alcoholic and a drunk all last season and now you're drinking with her.

Wendy (15:59.692)
Yelling?

Right. And you're pulling your way to go drink. you're right. Right. Exactly. Exactly.

Kelli (16:07.145)
Right, like that was the issue.

but this is Tamra at her finest.

Wendy (16:14.348)
Yeah, yeah. So then Emily picks up Gretchen and they head to Heather's. Shannon, Jen, Gina and Tamar. I didn't know. I guess that was Tamar's pickup truck that they threw all the luggage in because Tamar was driving it, right? I didn't know Tamar had a pickup truck, but it doesn't surprise me since they go to Big Bear all the time.

Kelli (16:31.167)
I mean, it could have been a rental too, but Eddie seems like the type of guy that's probably got a big old pickup truck. Yeah.

Wendy (16:34.408)
Yeah, probably as a pickup child. Yep. So Shannon has two suitcases for the one night, but she says it's because she's got her pants in there. And okay, we take that at face value. And then she gets in the back and she says to Gina, I lost my flipper. And Gina turns around and we see that she's missing a tooth. I was like, my God, Shannon, I do, I do like Shannon. really do.

Kelli (17:00.533)
Well, so listen, I listened to Jeff Lewis and I forget who was on. Kiki Monique. That's a whole other issue. We gotta talk about that. But Jeff Lewis was basically saying like, that's Shannon. Like everybody thinks this is a shtick and it's like an act. It's not. This is who Shannon is. She's a fucking mess. She's just a mess every day of her life. And I believe it.

Wendy (17:06.339)
yeah. Yeah.

Wendy (17:14.872)
Right.

Wendy (17:25.122)
Right, I do too. I do too. I mean, she's got a good heart, her intentions are pure, but she is, this is exactly who she is. She doesn't pretend to be something that she's not, which I like, I like. And honestly, like, yes, I like friends like her. Like she's also that friend that you know what you're getting. So she's gonna be a little disheveled, she'll probably be a little bit late. She's gonna, you know, have all these like ideas.

Kelli (17:29.931)
Absolutely. Absolutely.

Yeah.

Not even a little bit. It's very authentic.

Wendy (17:54.282)
and not really think about the execution of them, but you're gonna have a damn good time when she's there. You're gonna have a good time. You're gonna laugh. You're gonna laugh.

Kelli (18:02.187)
But here's the difference. Shannon doesn't have a whole lot going on, right, to be sharing with people in her personal life right now. Neither does Heather, right? We could say that. I'd rather watch Shannon all day long because I know with Shannon, what you see is what you get. That is truly who Shannon is. Heather, every scene is so produced and it's a big act.

Wendy (18:09.974)
Not that we know of. Not that we know of, right. Right.

Wendy (18:26.734)
Mm-hmm.

Kelli (18:32.573)
It's nothing, it's her opening Fendi bags. It's nonsense, but it's an act. Shannon, she's got her lashes half on, half off. Her hair's a mess. But that's who she is and that's where she's at right now. I would rather watch Shannon all day long. All day long.

Wendy (18:32.922)
that's for sure.

Wendy (18:38.178)
Yep. Yeah, it is.

Wendy (18:47.214)
Right.

Wendy (18:50.668)
half a clip in extension.

Wendy (18:55.34)
Me too, me too, I would too. I completely agree, I completely agree. Then we see Gretchen and Emily show up at Heather's penthouse and they have Nate the sleepover butler there. Okay, she's got a butler for the sleepover. Talk about pretentious.

I mean, listen.

Kelli (19:16.767)
Yeah, I'm not mad at that though.

Kelli (19:24.179)
If we do a sleepover, we're getting a sleepover butler.

Wendy (19:27.968)
Okay. I mean, did you see the little bed tents that she has set up?

Little odd. You did?

Kelli (19:34.091)
I actually loved those. In front of that big window, I did love those.

Wendy (19:39.938)
Yeah, well, it's in her living room. It's her actual living room. Because, you know, it's a one-bedroom penthouse. And they're not sleeping in her bedroom. We're not going to get to see her bedroom.

Kelli (19:45.716)
I know.

I wouldn't

of course not. I don't want to ever have a sleepover at Heather DeBrow's house, but if I do a sleepover, I like that setup.

Wendy (19:52.844)
What? Yeah.

Wendy (20:01.014)
Okay. All right. I mean, listen, I'm not going to say no if she invites me.

Kelli (20:03.947)
Just throwing it out there.

I am.

Because then I'd have to be fake nice and I have a- I can't do it.

Wendy (20:10.67)
So they arrived.

I don't know, you can't be fake nice. They arrive at the, no, they arrive at the house in Temecula and it's gorgeous. There's enough bedrooms for everyone. Tamar gives the primary to Shannon to make her feel comfortable. And then in her confessional, she said, I don't need the primary room. That's where I feel uncomfortable. I'm just like, my God. It's like, come on. It's too much. It is too much.

Kelli (20:17.096)
I can't be fake nice.

Kelli (20:36.747)
Because it's too much. She's like, it's too much.

Way too much.

Wendy (20:43.8)
So then we see them, bringing in the luggage from the pickup truck, but Shannon's in the kitchen, like looking at the stuff in the drawers and stuff. And then we find out that she's cooking breakfast, so she needed to bring a few things. And we see an immersion blender, a muffin tin, platters, mixers, utensils, an egg white maker, just to name a few. I was like, what is going on here? And I'll be honest with you, I know somebody who's very much like this. Like you invite them someplace, like for the night.

Kelli (21:06.837)
Yeah

Wendy (21:14.306)
And I have a friend and I can remember a time we went to Atlantic City. I mean, the refrigerator in the room wasn't cold. It showed up like two hours late. I wanted to make all these decorations and decorate the room. And then we come back in the room and there's another refrigerator there, plus the broken refrigerator, because it was just like all this stuff. And I'm just thinking to myself, like,

Shannon is like that, like has all these really good, like the intentions were good. The intentions are all good, but sometimes like the extra, I mean, it's too much. Right, right. Yeah, we'll see. We'll see how our breakfast turns out. It's probably gonna be great. Maybe not, we'll see. We'll have to wait and see. Heather asks Gretchen and Emily how the ride up was, and they say that they analyzed Tamra.

Kelli (21:47.209)
The intent is good, yes. But it's stressful. Yeah.

Kelli (22:00.364)
You

Wendy (22:10.496)
And we see Emily saying that Tamar's not a girl's girl. She said, she seems like the type who would always be friends with the guys. Yes, she does. She also talks, this is what I thought was very interesting about this episode is how Emily got really caught in this episode. know, she's really bad mouthing Tamar in this episode. She was bad mouthing Heather and...

She's gonna get called out on this. I mean, obviously not in this episode, but in the very near future, this is all coming out.

Kelli (22:45.685)
The reunion's gonna be interesting. The reunion's gonna be interesting because we know how Heather plays. You fuck with Heather one time, you're done. I mean, this is why there's a witch hunt on Katie right now. So the reunion's going to be very interesting. And whether or not Heather's afraid of Tamara or Tamara's afraid of Heather, Heather and Tamara clearly have an alliance. Nobody's coming in between that.

Wendy (22:48.267)
Yes.

Wendy (23:00.61)
Yeah.

Kelli (23:14.667)
So if you fuck with Heather, now you have Heather and Tamara gunning for you. So Emily should be probably a little worried after this episode.

Wendy (23:20.468)
Yep, and that's what's gonna happen. That is what is going to happen. I'm just so surprised because honestly, I thought Emily was smarter than that. But maybe because of everything that's going on with her son, she's off her game. Because she's got to know that this is gonna come out.

Wendy (23:42.51)
Oh, trying to reconnect. Make sure you have a stable internet connection. 93 % uploading.

Wendy (23:56.11)
goodness.

Wendy (24:05.527)
Are you there?

Kelli (24:07.497)
Yeah, now I am. I don't know what happened.

Wendy (24:09.248)
Okay. I don't know what happened either. I mean, I'm looking at it says 92 % uploading, but we're still all connected. So we'll just keep going. I'll see how I have to edit it. I don't know if you heard me or if it recorded it.

Kelli (24:24.319)
Wait, yours stopped and said and started uploading?

Wendy (24:27.818)
It says right now it's uploading, right? It didn't stop, I couldn't talk, I couldn't hear you or see you at all. Like I just saw you were frozen. Could you...

Kelli (24:36.991)
You're still choppy. I don't know what's going on.

Wendy (24:42.35)
Yeah, I mean right now it says 91 % uploading.

Let's just finish and we'll see. Hopefully it'll edit itself out because it's recording locally and then it all goes up to the cloud. So hopefully our local recordings are fine.

Kelli (24:59.637)
Did you check like your, like I checked my settings. Like you're on the wifi, everything's fine.

Wendy (25:03.342)
Yeah, I know. I checked mine too.

Wendy (25:08.182)
Yeah. Yeah.

Kelli (25:14.207)
Yeah, I'm connected, I'm all set.

Kelli (25:20.575)
really weird. could tell the whole time it was like a little choppy. There was a delay. I could tell like I would wait to say something because I could tell there was a delay.

Wendy (25:22.199)
It is weird.

Wendy (25:30.647)
Yeah.

Wendy (25:36.908)
All right, we'll just keep going and we'll see what happens. I don't know, did you hear me say that I'm surprised with Emily? Because I think she's smarter than that. I think Emily's smarter than that. And I feel like maybe she's off her game because of what's going on with her son. That she's dripping up and making these mistakes.

Kelli (25:37.547)
Alright.

Kelli (25:42.123)
Alright.

Kelli (25:52.81)
Maybe.

Kelli (25:56.32)
I also think that it's very interesting to see all of them navigate through this Katie thing. And honestly, I don't know who to believe. Gretchen was clearly lying. Gretchen clearly said she went to the hospital. And here's the other thing. I was thinking about this today. If naked waste had happened today, it would be so different. And I think...

Wendy (26:24.667)
my gosh, yeah.

Kelli (26:25.917)
It's because of where the internet is now. We all have a voice now as fans of Bravo, as fans of Housewives, as fans of reality TV, as fans of everything, we all have a voice, right? So we didn't really have a voice back then. This was very early on. Yes, there was the internet. Yes, we read their blogs every week after the shows, right? Do you remember doing that? I always went on bravotv.com and

Wendy (26:51.522)
I never read their vlogs. Nope. I never read their vlogs. No, because I thought it would be bullshit anyway.

Kelli (26:55.057)
I always read their blogs. And I do def... True. And then you'd have people paying people to write their blogs. I do remember thinking that Naked Wasted Night was very fucked up and it was not good for Tamara to do that. But could you imagine if that happened now? I think Tamara would have been fired if that happened now.

Wendy (27:23.248)
definitely. I definitely think so.

Kelli (27:24.233)
I mean, you're pushing alcohol and God only knows what, because we don't know what else was going on there that night. We really don't. But I honestly think that Tamara would have gotten so much more heat if that happened now. And I think it would have been enough heat from fans of the show that it might have gotten her fired. She doesn't have a huge fan base.

Wendy (27:33.738)
No, we don't. We don't. No.

Kelli (27:54.144)
There's not like, we've said this before, Teresa has a huge still, mean, maybe not as much as she used to, but she still has enough people saying like, no, we want Teresa on the show. You don't see that a lot for Tamra.

Wendy (28:09.228)
You know, it's interesting that you say that because Tamara and Eddie were also on the Jeff Lewis show. And Tamara was saying that, you know, according to Alex Baskin, you know, the audience doesn't really get to decide whether or not a housewife comes back. And the hate that's on there, like the negative comments about her or any other housewife is such a small percentage of, and I'm like, wait, what? Like,

Kelli (28:14.41)
I heard it.

Wendy (28:39.458)
I mean, are we reading and looking at the same things? Because I don't think that that's true. How can that be true?

Kelli (28:45.203)
It's not true, she's full of shit. yes, they 100%, I think, take the audience's reactions into consideration. Because Andy Cohen always says, have to figure out the difference. Do they love to hate you or do they hate to hate you? Because when they hate to hate you, that's when it becomes a problem. And I think we're at the point where people hate to hate Tamra.

Wendy (29:07.798)
Yes.

Wendy (29:12.844)
Yeah, this is very true.

Kelli (29:13.931)
So I think that if Naked Waste had happened right now, Tamara would be fired on the spot. She probably should have been back then, but again, listen, this was before the Me Too movement. This was before all of that. We're in such a different place as a country now, thank God. Where treatment like that, before Diddy, exactly, Harvey Weinstein, I mean, you know.

Wendy (29:36.022)
Right, before Diddy.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Kelli (29:43.435)
We're in a different place, thank God. It's a shame we weren't then, but progress. We're moving in the right direction.

Wendy (29:53.528)
Well, maybe on that front, we're moving in the right direction. I mean, I don't think our country is in a great place right now as we speak.

Kelli (30:01.227)
Oh, 100, no, 100%. You're absolutely correct. Yes, we have a lot of work to do.

Wendy (30:04.722)
Yeah, and I just want people to know that we're not tone deaf to that, but I don't want to talk about it because I'm here to talk about housewives and I need something light and something airy and I'd rather criticize this than what is actually happening, to be quite honest with you. But we do know that there's, yeah, we're not in a great spot.

Kelli (30:09.577)
That's right. No. That's right.

Kelli (30:16.927)
That's right. That's right. And listen, yeah.

You're absolutely right. There's a, there's a lot of work to do, but we're not going to talk about it. Right. This is, listen, we got enough shit going on at home. This is what we do for fun. And we're not going to make it not fun because, because that would suck. I just want to drink and talk about housewives.

Wendy (30:26.818)
Yeah. No, because we're talking about this, because this is entertaining.

Wendy (30:34.072)
Yep, that's it. Exactly. Exactly. Damn it. Exactly.

That's right. That's right. It's so funny. When we were leaving last night, we went to happy hour and we were leaving the bar and I ran it to somebody at the bar, it's Tara Nguyen I knew and she's like, you, are you We Wine? I was like, yeah. You know, I'm, yeah. She's like, I want to come on that podcast. She's like, I love wine. I said, that's great. I love wine too. And you can come on. said, you know, we don't talk about wine. goes, but you drink wine. I said, yes, we drink wine. I said, we talk about housewives. She's like, I'll talk about housewives as long as I can drink wine. I said, yes, that's it. That is what we are about.

Kelli (31:11.563)
100%.

Kelli (31:16.267)
I had no idea what happened. I walk outside, Heather's like, we lost them. I'm like, how did we lose them? We were right near the front door. She's like, I don't know, they saw somebody at the bar.

Wendy (31:17.57)
That's what we're about.

Wendy (31:24.014)
So just so our audience knows, this is what we're about. We're about drinking wine, having fun, and talking about housewives. That's what we're about.

Kelli (31:37.751)
And listen, it's not always about the drinking. I just did a three week hiatus where I had not an ounce of alcohol. So if you don't drink, we would still love you to listen if you like How's Wives.

Wendy (31:42.281)
No.

Wendy (31:48.93)
Yes, yes, exactly. So back to Orange County. So Heather says that, so Emily's talking about the photo, right? And how Jen is upset about the photo because she still hasn't seen it. And Heather says, well, I think she was showing me the picture because she was saying that this is what she looked like before and now she looks more like me. Okay, all right. That's what you're going with right now.

Kelli (31:55.957)
Mm-hmm.

Kelli (32:16.181)
Listen, it's just Heather defending Tamara. It's just Heather defending Tamara. That's not what it was. You know what she was doing, Heather. She was trying to make you see that Jem was heavier at one point. Still in that picture, Jem was in way better shape than I am right now, so God bless you, Jem. But that was the intent of showing that photo, Heather, and we all know it, so stop it.

Wendy (32:19.084)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Wendy (32:35.84)
Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

Wendy (32:43.576)
So then back into Mekula, Tamra yells to the ladies, come on, the limousines are here and Shannon's walking down the stairs and she's like, there better not be motorcycles. Sure enough, there was motorcycles with double side cars. I've never seen a double side car, have you? I mean, it looks cool. It looks so cool. I was like, my God, this is so cool.

Kelli (32:55.925)
Sure were motorcycles.

Kelli (33:00.907)
No, but I totally want to go in one.

It looked so fun. mean, like, like not to go out on a main road or on a highway, but like to go down a quiet street to a winery. Yes. Super fun. I'm down. I'm down for that.

Wendy (33:14.082)
No.

Wendy (33:18.958)
Yes, yes, mean they all look like they were having a great time. They were laughing. Shannon's laughing. She's like, oh no, snot's coming out of my nose and Jen is behind her. She's like, well it's hitting me in the face. I was just like, oh my God. Shannon's like, well it is allergy season. Out of sunglasses. Again, this is why I love Shannon.

Kelli (33:24.681)
Yes, yes.

Kelli (33:32.811)
my god, Tamara had it on her sunglasses.

Kelli (33:40.651)
This so gross.

Wendy (33:44.8)
Then back in Beverly Hills, we see the other ladies are walking on Rodeo Drive. And as they're crossing the street, Emily asks Heather if she called the paparazzi and Gretchen says, my God, it is paparazzi. And then the paparazzo, I guess that's what you call a single paparazzi, comes over and says, well, you didn't call us. It was totally coincidental. And at that point, I think she's talking about this incident right here, but then she goes on to say, no.

I know the photographer that took the shot. She's talking about the Disneyland thing two years ago. Two years ago!

Kelli (34:17.245)
I mean... Heather.

Wendy (34:18.602)
What are the odds? Come on. Come on.

Kelli (34:21.771)
Heather, we're not fucking morons. Like just stop. Don't you understand the more you talk about it, the more you're giving this life, the more you look guilty. Just stop it. We don't give a fuck if you call the paparazzi. Nobody cares. You're going to such great lengths to prove yourself, you know, innocent.

Wendy (34:37.251)
Yeah.

Wendy (34:41.314)
We really don't. Nobody cares.

Kelli (34:48.755)
you're making yourself look more guilty and nobody cares. Nobody cares that Terry cheated on you quite honestly. Cause wasn't that the whole thing that they did this whole paparazzi shoot because there was, you know, rumors out there that he was cheating. Personally, I don't think Terry would ever cheat on Heather because that would be one hell of a divorce, expensive. And honestly, I think they're a good couple. I think they're a cute couple.

Wendy (34:53.302)
That's it. Nobody cares.

Wendy (35:02.381)
Yes.

Kelli (35:17.811)
I don't believe that he would even cheat on her. I don't give a fuck if he did, but I don't think he would! Like, my god, stop trying to prove this... this... It's... it's just making you look so guilty!

Wendy (35:22.04)
you

Wendy (35:30.71)
It's like two, it's two, what episode number did I say this is? mean, 10th episode of the second season, we are talking about this. And actually it was from the season prior to it. It's actually now the third season. It is the third, it is the third season we are talking about this.

Kelli (35:34.923)
10.

Kelli (35:40.639)
Second season! We're still talking about this!

Kelli (35:48.735)
You're absolutely right.

Kelli (35:54.334)
It's like, tell me you're not retaliating against Katie without telling me you're retaliating against Katie. This is what it's all about. This is a witch hunt on Katie. I mean, listen, Katie moved very poorly this season or in the off season. She just did. She just, she talked to the wrong people. She talked to too many people. She moved in the wrong way. However, Heather, you're clearly retaliating. Stop.

Wendy (36:00.553)
my gosh, this is-

Wendy (36:11.34)
Yeah, she did.

Kelli (36:25.651)
with the paparazzi thing in Disneyland. You're right, it's the third season we're talking about this. And quite honestly, Emily's the first one to have brought this up three seasons ago, isn't she? She was the one who was laughing about it. I believe I could be wrong. I know, I know.

Wendy (36:27.232)
enough. know, I know.

That's insane.

Wendy (36:38.651)
what?

It was three years ago. I cannot remember. I don't remember. So they're going to Crush Station, a restaurant called Crush Station for dinner. The waiter comes up and Gretchen asks if they have Fireball. What? I mean, come on. He says no. She said if she mixes it, it gets really ugly. Emily says that she brought Fireball to bring out like the real Gretchers and not the perfectly quaffed Gretchers.

Kelli (36:46.765)
my God.

Wendy (37:10.414)
calling her Gretches again.

Kelli (37:11.819)
So what are you trying to do with like a naked wasted 2.0?

Wendy (37:15.018)
Mm, sounds like it. The waiter recommends the tuna cigar. didn't know what that was. I still don't know what it is, be honest with you, even after it came out. you know.

Kelli (37:25.277)
It looked, was something with caviar and it was wrapped. It was like an appetizer. I, one of them said, don't, guess Gretchen said, I don't like caviar and gave hers to Emily or something. Emily gave it to, okay, okay. Yeah.

Wendy (37:30.017)
Yeah.

Wendy (37:34.062)
No, Emily, Emily, no. Yeah, Emily gave it to Gretchen. So then Emily asked, what's the best steak? And the waiter says, well, the best steak in the world is the Japanese A5 Wagyu. So she's like, oh, I'll have that. Heather's paying. And Heather's like, yeah, that's fine. And we see the five ounce is $149. Just putting that out there. The ladies are at the wine tasting, and then they ask for the spit bucket. because they're not gonna, they don't want to drink all the wine.

And I think that was good that they did that because sometimes those wine tastings, like it could get, like you don't realize it. You're sitting at the table and all of a sudden four ounces, four ounce, like it adds up. Have you done a wine tasting? Have you ever? that you and I did? yeah, that's not, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We should do a wine. Yeah, we should go to a wine tasting. That should be our next outing.

Kelli (38:16.083)
it definitely adds up. We did that one in Smithville, where Lori, when Lori stole the, when Lori stole the other person's flight. Fucking classic Lori.

I would love to do that.

Wendy (38:33.108)
Not that one, like we should go find like a really good one. We did one in, gosh, we did that one in the park that Bill and I got the, we won free tickets for it. And it was, it wasn't just wine, it was hard alcohol too. that was good though. We have to find one of those.

Kelli (38:42.797)
yeah!

Kelli (38:47.142)
Kelli (38:50.581)
There's one up in North Jersey, I think it might be on the Pennsylvania border, but you go on a train? Yeah, it's really cool. The only problem is you need somebody to drive you home.

Wendy (38:56.974)
Huh

Wendy (39:02.22)
I was just gonna say, we take Eric with us? Or can we take a sober driver? just to, and yeah. All right, we gotta plan this. All right, so they get the spit bucket and Tamara, like even before it comes out, she's like to Shannon, do you like me again? Like really obnoxious. So it was obnoxious. Shannon's like, yeah, okay.

Kelli (39:05.639)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what we would have to do.

Kelli (39:22.845)
so awkward, so awkward.

Wendy (39:28.544)
Then they bring out the spittoons and Jen said, we're some hactuas. And Gina and Tamara start laughing. And Shannon's like, what's a hactua? And Tamara graphically describes it to Shannon. And Shannon's like, what? In her confessional, she's like, I'm not a spitter, sorry. I don't know what a hactua is. And the producer says, well, are you more of a swallower? And she's like, well.

I swallow when I'm drinking. If I'm drinking something I swallow, ugh, that doesn't sound good. I was like, Shannon,

Kelli (40:08.681)
I think she was trying to navigate that and somehow got out of it. I don't know.

Wendy (40:15.178)
Yeah, yeah. And then back in Beverly Hills, the waiter brings out the world famous tuna cigar, and it does have the caviar on the end and Emily doesn't want it, so she gives hers to Gretchen. Heather's telling them how she's taking classes at the Groundlings and now that she's, you know, in LA at the apartment, the penthouse. And there's a girl there that wrote a musical and she asked Heather to be in it. And she said that she was so happy to do it, that that's where her career started was in musical theater.

Kelli (40:23.317)
Yeah.

Wendy (40:42.774)
and that she's taking vocal lessons and acting. And then the other ladies at the Vineyard were talking about how she was taking comedy classes. And they were surprised to hear that, that they think that Terry's more comedic than Heather is, that maybe he should be doing the comedy classes.

Yeah, just again, just Heather, know, being Heather. Emily tells, now this is where it gets good. So Emily tells Heather that Jen asked me if Heather just pacifies Tamar because she's afraid of her. And Heather's like, what was your response? And look on her face is like, and then they cut to the scene where Emily is in fact saying that to Jen. Emily said, I don't remember, but I think maybe I said that you did. Heather said, first of all,

Kelli (41:28.885)
Thank God she said that, thank God she said that because if she didn't say that, it would have been real bad. It's bad.

Wendy (41:33.92)
Mm-hmm. I mean, it's still real bad. She's the one who said it. didn't ask her that. She's the who said it.

Kelli (41:39.005)
It's bad, but, well, that's the thing. Yeah, Jen didn't ask her. Emily just offered that. Yes, yes, it is bad, it is bad. But at least she admit to saying something. Like at least she wasn't like, I was like, no, you know.

Wendy (41:44.714)
Right. Exactly. It's bad. It's bad.

Wendy (41:57.74)
I'm just telling you, wait till Heather sees that. I mean, as now, I'm sure she's seen it. I'm sure she's pissed. Sure she's pissed. Heather said, first of all, Jen's statement is bullshit. And Emily said, during your lie detector test, they asked you if you were afraid of Tamara, and you said yes. And Heather said, yeah, well, during the lie detector test, I was kind of like, yeah. What? What kind of answer is that? Emily's like, well, are you still?

Kelli (42:00.182)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Wendy (42:26.688)
afraid of her now? And she's like, no, no, not now. What?

Kelli (42:33.085)
It's, listen, they have an alliance. They're not gonna go against each other. They're never gonna go against each other. That would be a good season if one of them went against the other one. Not gonna happen. And I shouldn't even say that, because I don't like all the, no.

Wendy (42:44.782)
So then.

We don't want that, right. No, we don't want that. We don't want that. So then after the wine tasting, the ladies are walking through the vineyard, but they're in twos and Shannon and Jen are together and Shannon just like falls down and then she can't get back up.

Kelli (43:00.939)
Shannon should just always wear flats. Don't wear wedges, don't wear heels, just wear flats. You seem to struggle with a heightened heel in any shape of a heightened heel.

Wendy (43:05.143)
Yeah.

Wendy (43:10.838)
Yes. Yes.

Listen, I don't think anyone should be wearing heels to a vineyard. Let's just put that out there.

Kelli (43:21.547)
That's what I mean these ladies dress ridiculous for the you know we're going to the reality virtual Awards on Wednesday our group chat is filled with what the fuck are we wearing because everything is based Exactly everything is based on the shoes. We're wearing because we're gonna be in the city and we're smart. We're from Jersey

Wendy (43:32.95)
On our feet. On our feet. Right.

Wendy (43:40.888)
Yeah.

Kelli (43:44.875)
And by the way, we still haven't figured it out. So stay tuned, stay tuned. Yeah.

Wendy (43:45.422)
boy. No, we haven't, but we'll let you know. Yeah, we'll let you know.

So, Jean is with Tamar and she's telling her that Jen is still upset about the fatty photo. And Tamar's like, I didn't really say that. And she finds out that it kind of came from Heather and Tamar said, well, that's unfortunate. So then they go.

Kelli (44:07.765)
Yeah, but Gina said that Heather said fat photo, but she didn't. Heather said she looked heavier in the photo. Listen, I'm not a Heather defender, but there is a big difference. There's a difference in those two statements. Yeah.

Wendy (44:12.6)
No.

Wendy (44:21.964)
Right, there definitely is. There is, there is. Then ladies go inside to the winery for dinner and Tamar starts right out to Jen. Gina brought up something to me on our walk. When you and I talked the other day, I thought everything was totally resolved, but Jen said, well, I did, but then everyone keeps bringing up the photo, this fatty photo, and I haven't even seen it. So Tamar said, well, I never said fatty photo.

I was just talking about the fact that you had changed from when we met and Jen's like, I haven't changed that much, know, when we met. I have changed since I was married and, you know, I probably, you know, I was eating more then and she shows her the picture. in Tamar in her confessional said, maybe it's because of Ryan's influence. I heard he likes tits on a stick. Are you kidding me? And Jen is that.

Kelli (45:16.457)
Like, why would you say that? And Tamara said that Jen used to be shy and timid, then in her confessionals, she's like, she's always got her tits out. So do you.

Wendy (45:27.404)
Right. Right. Yeah.

Kelli (45:31.293)
Or at least she used to, Tamra. Maybe not anymore, but I kinda feel like she still does.

Wendy (45:37.006)
So then Jen asks Tamar, like, when did it change? And Tamar's like, well, it became a problem when we went to Cabo and Ryan said, I love Jennifer. And I said, well, she's married. And he said, yeah, I know she's gonna divorce him. She's like, two months prior, like we were hanging out with Will. And then Eddie feels like he feels dirty, like we're hanging out with the husband and the boyfriend. wait, what? I love that Shannon called this out. In her confessional, Shannon's like,

Kelli (46:00.832)
Yeah, because... Yeah!

Wendy (46:06.99)
Can Tamar say hypocrite? Because she was having an affair with Eddie while she was married to Simon.

Kelli (46:09.632)
Right.

Kelli (46:12.981)
Yeah, like all of a sudden Eddie has a moral compass. You were having sex with a married woman. On national television in a bathtub. Alright, maybe they weren't having sex, but...

Wendy (46:18.466)
Right.

Wendy (46:22.412)
I don't think they were married then.

Kelli (46:29.13)
she was divorced during the bathroom scene?

All right, but he was, she was definitely cheating on Simon with Eddie.

Wendy (46:36.95)
Yeah. It's so funny because when we say that, people will come in our comments and be like, no, she wasn't. And I'm like, yeah, she was. it's... Yeah.

Kelli (46:44.415)
they say she wasn't cheating on Simon with Eddie? Listen, I believe that Tamra probably left her marital home maybe before she started her relationship with Eddie, but she was probably still legally married when she started sleeping with him. I'm just gonna say, you know, go out on a limb and say that.

Wendy (46:59.68)
Yeah. Right.

So, know, Tamar shows Jen the picture and she admits that she was being shady and Jen's like, well, why did you go there? And Tamar apologized and Jen said, this is where the problem lies. Like, you apologize and Tamar's like, well, I apologize. Like, what do you want, blood? And then Shannon jumps in and she's like, Tamar, you don't want to take accountability for what you do. Like, you go low, you go really low. I don't go that low, she doesn't go that low, she doesn't go that low.

Then Tamra's like, yeah, you do. You just don't say it to their face. What?

So then.

Kelli (47:41.557)
By the way, my DVR cut off at this point. Yes, so everything you're gonna say after this, I have no notes on because my DVR cut off. But I'm very glad that Shannon called her out on that because Tamra does go way too low.

Wendy (47:44.411)
it did? Yeah.

Wendy (47:50.058)
sausage

Wendy (47:55.5)
Yep. Shannon said, I like you, Tamara. And Tamara's like, it sounds like it. Shannon said, I have reservations because you've been like this. And then you're like this roller coaster. she does like, she does the roller coaster motion. How about, and then Tamara yells, how about all those years I've been, 10 years I've been there for you, through your divorce, through everything. She said, yeah, you said it sucked the life out of you. Tamara's like, yeah, it did. You do. Shannon said, you've not been in my life for one year. And my life has been better without you. I was like, ooh.

Good for her.

She's like, I don't think you know how hard it was for me last year. Tamara said, you would drink and you would say things. Tamara said, even Gina said that she's concerned about your drinking.

Kelli (48:39.635)
And there it is. And there it is.

Wendy (48:41.004)
right there, Shannon looked at Gina and said, what do you mean? Gina said, I worry about you. Okay, that's not what happened. And that's not what was said. That's not what was said. And that's bullshit. That's bullshit.

That's bullshit.

And I hope that comes out. I mean, we'll see.

Kelli (49:07.509)
Well, Shannon's gonna see what the conversation was, and the conversation was clearly Gina saying to Tamra, I don't understand why last year you're coming down hard on her for being an alcoholic, and this year you're pulling her aside to go do shots when nobody's looking. That's what the conversation was. Tamra's the one who turned it around into, so you're worried about Shannon's drinking again? No, asshole, I'm worried about your behavior. But Tamra will never address her behavior.

Tamara will never acknowledge her poor behavior. She just wants everybody to move on. She thinks that if she says she's sorry, everybody's just supposed to move on.

Wendy (49:45.504)
Yeah, it doesn't work that way. It doesn't.

Kelli (49:47.453)
It doesn't, and honestly, if she were really going to therapy and really taking her therapy seriously, she would know that by now. Because at this point, she should have been in therapy for quite some time, because she announced her autism diagnosis quite a while before this. So she's been in therapy long enough to know that you can't just blink your eyes and move on from a situation, you have to address it.

Wendy (50:02.638)
This is true.

Kelli (50:15.251)
and everyone involved in the situation has the right to address it with you.

Wendy (50:20.63)
Yeah, 100%. 100%.

Kelli (50:22.869)
We all know people who want to just skirt on by without addressing what's happened in the past.

Wendy (50:30.776)
So this is episode 10. guess we'll see what happens next. We already know the reunion is going to be explosive just because of the Katie factor, let alone all this other.

Kelli (50:42.559)
Well, not only the reunion, but something comes out in the finale. saying, like, Emily's come out and said that it's like fractured the group. I think it's, I think, I mean, I could be wrong, but I think it's Gretchen says that Tamra cheated on Eddie, which I've speculated myself. So I don't know how explosive that is, but.

Wendy (50:51.712)
Yeah.

Wendy (51:03.712)
Yeah, mean, I just do scenes from next week and Slade is talking about she was in some recording studio and she didn't realize the microphone was still on.

Kelli (51:13.419)
Yeah.

Wendy (51:13.782)
I don't know what that's in reference to, but I mean, it's probably 17 years ago, to be quite honest with you, because that's all they keep bringing up and I don't really give a

Kelli (51:18.281)
Right. maybe they're talking about or having an affair on Simon. Who knows? But whatever happens, Emily says that it fractures the group, the finale.

Wendy (51:23.64)
Who knows, but honestly.

Wendy (51:29.846)
Yeah, so we'll have to wait and see. So until next time, thank you for watching and listening. Please give us five star reviews and subscribe. Bye.

Kelli (51:39.392)
Bye.