RHOC-Locked, Loaded, and Livid

Wendy (00:01.049)
Hi, welcome to We Wine Whenever, I'm Wendy.

Kelli (00:04.085)
I'm Kelly.

Wendy (00:05.593)
We are talking about Real Housewives of Orange County, season 19, episode number 12, Defense is the Best Offense. That's all right. That's all right.

Kelli (00:17.506)
Yeah, depends on who you're talking about in this group.

Wendy (00:21.209)
So yeah, that's very true. We start out with Gretchen, Gina, Shannon, and Heather. They're talking about the trip to Temecula. Emily and Tamara are talking about the Beverly Hills sleepover. And then we flash to 48 hours earlier. I hate when they do this.

Kelli (00:42.118)
It's getting annoying. What's also getting annoying is when they're showing a conversation, I think it's in my notes, like between two of them and then going to two other ones and then going back to those two and then back to the other two. I don't like it. Show us the whole scene and then show us the next whole scene.

Wendy (00:55.287)
I don't like it either.

Wendy (01:00.351)
Right, right. So 48 hours earlier, Shannon's FaceTiming with Sophie, Gina's dyeing her son's hair blonde. That was bold.

Kelli (01:12.396)
Listen, I have seen this done numerous times because at Brick Memorial, the wrestlers for sure, maybe the football players, I don't know, I don't pay attention, but the wrestlers for sure bleached their hair. That was a very good at-home bleach job. Like very good. Yeah, and he had dark hair. So I mean, they must've toned it. They went the distance on this one. That was a great job.

Wendy (01:32.908)
It looks good, right?

Wendy (01:41.209)
Yeah, yeah. Heather's FaceTiming with her daughter Max in Paris. Emily and Annabelle are talking about nails and Annabelle said that that's hooker red. And she said to her mom, you probably wore that hooker red. I was like, ooh, she's a little spicy.

Kelli (01:56.856)
She sure did.

Kelli (02:03.916)
And Gina's face was, I mean, Emily's face was so funny when she turned around, she was like, well.

Wendy (02:08.697)
Yeah. Jen and Ryan are talking about the wedding and Jen asks if they should do it in September. Ryan says yes. Jen's like going through the list of things to do. Like we've got to do this, we've got to do that. She's like, you know, we were talking about it in Temecula and that house that we were in was so nice. Like that would be a nice place to have it. It would be a nice place to have it.

Kelli (02:29.869)
I agree.

Kelli (02:33.336)
Do you think she's hemming and hawing and prolonging to see if possibly Bravo's gonna be like, well, we'll give you a special episode or you know what I mean? Now she'll definitely never get a spinoff, but.

Wendy (02:43.235)
don't think so.

don't think so.

Kelli (02:47.83)
I think maybe are they just at least trying to get like an episode out of it? Like just plan it.

Wendy (02:55.063)
Yeah, I don't know. think that there was a lot going on. think that the divorce at this point, I don't even know if the divorce is completely finalized, right? Yeah, so.

Kelli (03:00.974)
Hmm.

Kelli (03:05.952)
No, I don't know. Yeah, I guess obviously she's gotta be divorced before she can get remarried, Yeah.

Wendy (03:11.65)
Right.

I mean, actually, I remember reading recently, just very recently that the divorce was final and the custody was final and she got 100 % custody of all the minor children. But I also read, and I don't know if this is true because it wasn't like a court document, that she had to like pay him money to get full custody. I don't know if that's true.

Kelli (03:37.304)
Well, and I do know when she was on Watch What Happens Live, I believe she told Andy that he still has not paid her anything.

Wendy (03:42.125)
He hasn't paid her, no, he hadn't paid her anything. So, I mean, you know, if this is the case and this is what's happening, like these are reasons not to actually, you know, to get married, right? Like why? It's not really necessary. Eddie and Tamara are talking and then they're talking about taking, she's talking about taking Sophia to the Music Institute in LA.

Kelli (03:52.227)
sure.

Wendy (04:08.189)
and she's telling him what she had said about Shannon's dad and his drinking. And she's like, you know, I can't with her. And Eddie was kind of supporting her on that. Like I was like, yeah.

Kelli (04:18.23)
He always does, blindly. It's amazing to me.

Wendy (04:22.261)
It really is.

Kelli (04:23.628)
I mean, she was clearly wrong and he goes right along with it.

Wendy (04:25.985)
And you know, yeah, I know, I know. Then Gretchen's with Skylar and Slade and she's also filling him in on what happened. I mean, Skylar was just there for a half a minute and then she's just throughout the door. I don't know where she was going. It was kind of odd. Yeah.

Kelli (04:41.55)
I mean, she had a backpack, so it was either like school or camp or something, but I was thinking the same thing. Like, somebody, I mean, unless it was like a friend's mom picking her up and driving them both somewhere, who knows? Or maybe she's got a nanny, like maybe that's her nanny and she does the driving.

Wendy (04:52.491)
Such a weird scene though, like do we need to see her?

Wendy (04:57.911)
Maybe.

She's feeling him about what happened to the sleepover and bring up about Tamara sounding like a drowned rat. Slade again brings up the tryst, he says in the studio. I'm just like, you gotta be kidding me, right?

Kelli (05:18.126)
Yeah, and the thing is is that nobody used the word cheat. Well, Gretchen and Slade did not use the word cheating. Tamara could have been very single, which I believe is what she's saying now. It was after her and Slade were separated. I mean, not Slade, what am I saying? Her and Simon were separated. So listen, you want to hook up with your neighbor, hook up with your neighbor. Like this shouldn't even be an issue, quite honestly.

Wendy (05:26.049)
No.

Wendy (05:46.563)
I mean, honestly, none of this should be an issue. was so long ago and who really cares? Nobody cares. Nobody cares.

Kelli (05:50.251)
Exactly, nobody cares. I mean, you know, if you slept with a guy from 98 degrees, I don't know, wave that flag proudly.

Wendy (05:59.199)
Yeah, it's.

Kelli (06:00.79)
If you were single, who cares? If you were single, there's really no damages. So suing someone is probably not gonna work. She probably wasn't, but she's saying she is. She was.

Wendy (06:09.805)
think she was single. I don't think she was single because when

Well, when, cause when Heather asked Gretchen in the car, was she, was she married at the time or was she with, did she say married or with Eddie?

Kelli (06:25.112)
She said, was she married and Gretchen just made a face and Heather said, well that would not have been good. That's what Heather said, not, that's not good. She said, that would not have been good. So it doesn't matter if she was married to Simon or Eddie or nobody said the word cheating. Gretchen made a face. I mean, if we're gonna look into the semantics, this is the semantics or logistics, whatever.

Wendy (06:34.059)
Right. Right.

Wendy (06:41.303)
We don't know. Right.

Wendy (06:49.175)
Yeah, that's true.

Wendy (06:55.073)
Yeah. Listen, I'm so sick of bringing up old crap. mean, first it's naked wasted, now this crap. I mean, can we get, I mean, know that Gretchen is stuck in 1985, but does this whole storyline need to be stuck in 1985? I mean, the whole outfit, her whole ensemble is stuck in 1985.

Kelli (07:00.778)
Exactly.

Kelli (07:10.738)
Her hair, her hair is.

Kelli (07:16.354)
This is what I think. I think that Tamara knew that this was gonna come up. I think Tamara knew that Gretchen was holding something and something was gonna come out. And that's why Tamara brought up the whole drugging naked wasted thing before Gretchen had a chance to bring this up. And maybe that's why, you know, defense is your best offense. I think Tamara, like Tamara is always one step ahead of Gretchen,

She got the heads up that this might be coming out. And then she got ahold of the Gretchen conversation with Katie.

Wendy (07:55.043)
I mean, it's very possible. Listen, it's all very possible at this point.

Kelli (07:58.849)
I mean, Emily said it herself last week, Tamara is always strategizing. Always, always, always. This is how she lives her life. It sounds exhausting, quite honestly. I feel bad for her because it sounds exhausting.

Wendy (08:04.655)
definitely.

Wendy (08:12.769)
It does sound exhausting.

Gretchen's telling Slay that Emily said that she doesn't trust Tamar with information. Emily keeps pushing to hear the song that she knows it's gonna make her friend look bad, which is true. mean, she's...

Kelli (08:29.856)
It was totally true, Emily was pushing hard for this. That's why I think they knew.

Wendy (08:35.169)
Yeah, I mean, I did put down Emily as a flip-flopper. That was my next note. And she is.

Kelli (08:39.138)
Mm-hmm. But I'm sorry, Gretchen is completely blaming Slade for this and basically taking no accountability. Zero. All right.

Wendy (08:47.799)
Which is typical, yeah. Then we see Tamra and Sophia are taking the tour of the Music Institute and Sophia loves to write lyrics and sing and produce. I'll be honest with you, that whole tour of the Music Institute with Tamra, like being so pushy was so cringe. It really was.

Kelli (09:09.29)
It what I actually you're not gonna believe this but I actually have that it was a nice moment between her and her daughter like listen if we could see Tamra in Tamra's life more she might be more likeable and Not always scheming on her cast mates like I actually didn't mind this at all. I happen to adore her daughter I think her daughter is lovely. So the more we see her I feel like the better Tamra looks

Wendy (09:38.253)
Well, this is, and I should rephrase this. What I thought was cringe about it is that Tamara was like, she was on the tour instead of like letting Sophia talk. Like she was taking control of it. I like the fact that Sophia's going to this music institute and that we find out that her artist name is Ugly Angel. And we get to find out who her inspirations are and what kind of music that she likes. Because her mother, like,

Kelli (09:48.579)
Well.

Kelli (09:52.142)
100%.

Wendy (10:08.395)
when Tamra's there, like she's walking through, she likes to write lyrics and she does this and she does that. Well, that's not for you.

Kelli (10:15.82)
No, but it's Tamra making it about herself, which is what Tamra does. I mean, if Tamra's in the room and doesn't have all of the attention, she's not happy.

Wendy (10:19.489)
Yeah, that's the part. Yeah.

Wendy (10:25.953)
That's the part I thought was cringing, not the fact that they went there. I like that they went there. I just don't, I don't like that the Tamar is so freaking pushy. You know, even, I don't know if it was on a podcast. Yeah, it might've been on her podcast. was saying that, she was saying that it was Sophia's birthday and she was taking Sophia and her boyfriend to New York. I think it was on the podcast. She was taking them to New York.

Kelli (10:27.788)
Yes, that I agree with.

Wendy (10:53.399)
together to celebrate her birthday and her daughter said to her, could you not like be with us all the time so I can have some time just to spend with her boyfriend. And Tamara made some snide comment about like, he should be worried about like those bangs you just cut.

Kelli (11:07.507)
Wendy (11:08.535)
Yeah. I was like, what, what? Yeah. Like still, like to this day, like very recently she was talking about this and I was like, you've got to be kidding me. Yeah. And I'm like, why would you say that? Why would you say that? No. No. And then after this, Tamar says, you know, when she was 20, her dream was to go to the fashion Institute, but she was pregnant.

Kelli (11:11.596)
Whoa!

Kelli (11:19.533)
Whoa.

Kelli (11:26.968)
Yeah, that's not good. That's not good.

Wendy (11:37.225)
and that, you know, she didn't get to, you know, so she did it to herself. So now, right, she didn't get to follow her dreams, which I get. It happens. The next scene I really liked, it was Jen and her daughter, Everly. Everly is gorgeous. I didn't realize she was only 14 years old. Can you believe she's only 14? Because I had to rewind it to see how old, she's only 14. 14.

Kelli (11:38.892)
Yeah. Follow her dreams, yeah.

Sure.

Kelli (11:51.554)
Yeah. Gorgeous.

No, me neither. I didn't know that.

Kelli (12:02.604)
Yeah, that's she looks much older. But she's beautiful. She is beautiful.

Wendy (12:04.985)
She does. She's beautiful. They're at a med lounge and her daughter says that they're best friends. She also said in her confessional, she got a confessional that she's gonna live with her mom even when she has kids. she's, you know, her mom's her best. I thought that was so sweet. I mean, the fact that she's 14 and she really loves her mom that much, right?

Kelli (12:23.992)
That is sweet.

Yeah, that's a huge accomplishment right there, especially for a mother and daughter at that age, for sure.

Wendy (12:33.558)
Yeah, that's what I'm saying, right?

They're talking about how she wants a boyfriend in high school. Her daughter's getting her facial while Jen is just kind of sitting there talking to her. And she also says that you're my best friend and I'd like you to be my maid of honor. And she then asks, like, it weird because of your dad? And she's like, well, it's like her relationship is good with her dad, which I'm, listen, I guess I'm glad about that because it's her father.

Kelli (13:04.12)
Of course, sure, course. Yeah.

Wendy (13:06.137)
And I don't think Jen wants anything other, but I don't think she wants them not to have a good relationship with him, because she's never really said anything bad about him, just that he doesn't pay.

Kelli (13:17.462)
Right, and I think that clearly this comes down to the fact that the husband is not okay with Jen and Ryan's relationship. Certainly if Ryan was the other man, it makes total sense. So for her kids, thankfully they do have a close relationship with their father, which is wonderful, but it must be very awkward for them.

Wendy (13:30.969)
Right.

Kelli (13:42.029)
because I'm sure they want to be happy for their mom because they clearly see her happy. mean, Ryan is a good guy. He's proven himself to be a good guy in this relationship. And I'm sure they're appreciative of that, but they probably feel bad for their dad because he's not over it. take, mean, listen, you know, I don't want to make a general statement, but typically I think it takes men a lot longer to get over an affair if their wife or girlfriend or fiance or

Wendy (13:50.894)
Yeah.

Kelli (14:11.35)
cheats on them. I think men take it. I shouldn't say this. I'm probably going to get some heat for this. I think it takes men a little bit longer to get past that. It's just my opinion. Sorry.

Wendy (14:22.329)
don't even know if he has a girlfriend or if he's moved on. I think he did, right?

Kelli (14:24.972)
Well, I remember last season Tamra, Tamra mentioned it. I don't know if he still does. Yeah, because it was somebody, it was somebody. Yeah, it was somebody that they knew, yeah. Yeah, but he's clearly not okay with Jen and Ryan's relationship, which has to be very tough on her kids.

Wendy (14:32.355)
that they knew.

Yeah, that's what I thought. Right.

Wendy (14:42.411)
Yeah, Jen is saying that she's finally in a relationship where the man values her and treats her right. And she feels like her children are collateral damage. And her daughter, she said she doesn't feel like collateral damage. She wants her mom to be happy, which again, I thought this was such a sweet moment.

Kelli (14:51.96)
Yeah.

Kelli (14:59.682)
Very sweet, very, very sweet.

Wendy (15:01.849)
Because it's honestly the first time we've ever really even seen her with her daughter. I mean, we always see her with her sons. Which actually that means since she's 14, maybe now that's why she can film with her daughter because she's got full custody. That's what that's all about. That's interesting, right?

Kelli (15:06.54)
Yes. Yes.

Kelli (15:13.442)
She has 100 % custody,

Kelli (15:20.418)
which would make sense if he made her pay him.

Wendy (15:23.735)
Yep. That's very interesting, right?

Kelli (15:27.96)
talk about strategizing.

Wendy (15:29.433)
Right? Okay. Next thing we see is Gretchen shows up to the United Defense Tactical in her... Yeah, with the braid down to her butt. I mean, give me a...

Kelli (15:39.288)
Just like Lara Croft.

Kelli (15:43.778)
which she says it was not on purpose, but yes it was.

Wendy (15:47.767)
I think she had like the action figure sitting there while she was getting dressed. I'm not even joking. Like, are you kidding me?

Kelli (15:50.959)
Exactly. I totally agree. I totally agree. She's like, no, I just picked this long braid up for no reason.

Wendy (16:02.219)
Yeah. Come on.

Kelli (16:06.574)
It might be my favorite outfit that she's worn this season though, quite honestly. Compared to the other stuff, I like it.

Wendy (16:10.681)
gosh.

No, I don't, I don't. We find out now, listen, I didn't know anything about this, that Gretchen won $500,000 in a stalking case and she really wants the women to be able to defend themselves. Listen, I get the idea that you want women to be able to defend themselves, but did you know about the $5,000?

Kelli (16:35.982)
I don't know and I don't even remember her hearing her say $500,000. Did she say that? Wow.

Wendy (16:41.537)
Yeah, she did. Yeah. So this whole thing, and I mean, when we get to the end, there's more about that. I'm like, this is very strange. Like, this doesn't even make any sense to me. So.

Kelli (16:50.71)
Yeah, yeah for sure.

No, and then we hear that somebody was stalking Shannon.

Wendy (16:58.329)
We do.

Kelli (16:59.904)
Yeah, Shannon said she had a stalker. It was very quick, though. It was very quick.

Wendy (17:06.169)
I have to see if I have that in my notes. I don't remember that. Jen and Shannon are driving together to the self-defense class and Gina and Tamron are going together. And the ladies don't know where they're going. They don't know what they're going to do. They have no idea. In the meantime, Heather and Emily meet Gretchen there and Gretchen is explaining to the ladies what's going on and what they're doing. And Heather and her confessional says, listen,

Kelli (17:08.141)
Yeah.

Wendy (17:35.521)
I live on the 38th floor and I have 12 security guards downstairs. I'm good. Like she doesn't think she needs self-defense.

Kelli (17:41.88)
feel like Heather should not have said that. I know she was trying to be glitchy and whatever, but I don't know, man. I believe in karma. I don't think you should say that stuff.

Wendy (17:43.839)
I know. Yeah.

Kelli (17:54.542)
I don't know

Wendy (17:55.297)
Yeah. Okay. The next thing is she's telling them that, you know, what she has set up for the ladies. I mean, I, what are your thoughts on this whole fake assault then? Yeah.

Kelli (18:08.258)
the carjacking. So...

Kelli (18:13.144)
First of all, I would not have known it was a prank and I would have probably started kicking and punching. I would have freaked out.

I don't know, do you think you would have known?

Wendy (18:28.473)
think that in 2025 or let's say this was filmed in 2024 in the world that we live in you don't do a prank of an assault with a weapon on women in a vehicle are you out of your damn mind seriously seriously

Kelli (18:40.034)
Well, that is.

Kelli (18:44.738)
I think you're right, yeah. And I think the driver not, obviously if you're in a car with a driver and something like this happens, the driver would pull away. The fact that the driver wasn't driving away. Yeah, no, you're right. That it was.

Wendy (18:59.221)
I think that honestly, think that the fact that production did this or allowed this to happen is freaking crazy. You know what I'm saying? just, like, this is what was going through my mind. Like, someone's got a gun and they're at, are you kidding me? Like, and Shanna's like, what if I had a heart attack? Like, seriously. Like, this is not, this is not,

Kelli (19:11.692)
Yeah, you're right. Yes, yes.

Kelli (19:21.048)
Right.

Kelli (19:26.339)
Yeah.

Wendy (19:29.262)
something to joke about. Like I'm all for a prank, but...

Kelli (19:33.656)
Yeah. Yeah.

Wendy (19:35.477)
A prank with a gun?

Kelli (19:38.87)
Yeah. Yeah, you're right. You're right. It was way too much.

Wendy (19:44.025)
I don't know. mean, actually Tamar in her confessional said, what if I had a heart attack? I would have sued this shit out of Gretchen. Although that, what would I get from her? I guess maybe a bag of groceries and a subscription of FaceTune. That was funny.

Kelli (19:51.981)
Yeah.

Kelli (19:58.713)
Listen, what if one of them were carrying a gun?

Wendy (20:02.123)
Well exactly. Exactly. I mean, not for nothing, Tamer's a pretty good shooter.

Kelli (20:06.7)
I mean, was exactly, he was reaching in the car.

Wendy (20:11.073)
Yeah, yeah. I mean, when I saw that scene, when I saw that scene, I was just like, what is wrong with them? And I don't know. Like, feel like people should be outraged about this. I really do.

Kelli (20:14.754)
Yeah, you're right. I didn't even think of that.

Kelli (20:27.04)
It'll be interesting to see if they are. I I haven't seen much on social media, but you're right. I mean, it just aired, so maybe we'll start seeing some. Yeah, I didn't even think of that, but I think you're right.

Wendy (20:32.662)
Right? Yeah.

Wendy (20:40.247)
Yeah, I was not cool with it. mean, poor Shannon, she said she was functioning frozen. And, you know.

Kelli (20:48.44)
Well, especially with the fact that she's got a stalker, like...

Wendy (20:51.937)
Right, and she's got anxiety, like it's obvious, like I mean, why would you do this to somebody like that? Like that's not funny.

Kelli (20:54.071)
Yeah, yeah.

Kelli (20:58.552)
But Shannon knew pretty quickly that it was a prank.

Wendy (21:01.273)
She did know pretty quickly. She did. She did.

Kelli (21:03.212)
Yeah, but, but yeah, that's... Yikes.

Wendy (21:07.565)
Yeah. Yeah. So they're going to be doing reality based threat training and they're splitting them up into two teams. So the first is Heather, Gina, Gretchen and Shannon. They're learning self-defense and Emily, Jen and Tamara are doing target practice.

I wrote down Emily's shooting sucks. She was so bad. Tamara is like a sharpshooter. She's obviously practiced. Like she's obviously done this before.

Kelli (21:32.696)
so bad.

Kelli (21:41.347)
Yeah, I mean, I could see her and Eddie like going to the gun range together. Like, you know what I mean? Cause he likes the big bear house. Like he likes that whole thing. I'm sure she, yeah. So that's cool. She said, I'm a sniper with my words. So I don't know why anybody's surprised. I don't know if that's a flex, but she thought it was.

Wendy (21:44.831)
Yeah, I could too. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Wendy (21:56.877)
Yeah.

Yeah, it is kind of actually. Right? Yeah.

Kelli (22:02.046)
It is kind of, you know, we've said it. I'd like to go. I don't, I don't want a gun personally. I would never want a gun, but I would like to go to a shooting range and just try it. Let off some steam.

Wendy (22:11.489)
Yeah. Yep. Heather said to Gina and Shannon, like, was I right about, like, Tamar and Shannon, like, that they would, you know, be drinking and hanging out in the hot tub? And they're like, no, no, no, you were not. Shannon's telling, you know, telling them that she was sharing that her parents had a tumultuous relationship. And then, you know, Tamar blurs out that, you know, her father was an alcoholic and Heather

actually verbally gasped. I wrote that down and I played it back like she was like, which again, like, that's a horrible thing to say.

Kelli (22:52.642)
Well, and I thought it was very interesting that Gina was like, well, that's not exactly what she said. you know, like, come on.

Wendy (22:57.823)
Exactly. that's... Yeah, Gina's like, well, she said your father had a problem with drinking. And Shannon's like, yeah, that's what she said. Like, Gina, come on. And then even in her confessional, Gina's like, it's unfair to Hammer that Shannon is holding this over, like holding onto this. Like, what do you mean? Tamar is the one who's holding onto this and who's not letting it go.

It's not Shannon. Shannon's just setting her boundaries and being clear with them. I don't agree with Gina on this at all.

Kelli (23:35.094)
No, me neither. And Gina was saying that it was Tamara supporting Shannon. No, was not. No, it was not. We all know Tamara and we all know that that was not support she was showing.

Wendy (23:41.577)
No, no it wasn't. And then in her confessional, right.

In her confessional, Gina is trying to say she's creating a mountain out of a molehill, but she couldn't get that right.

Kelli (23:53.875)
my God, these women, just like Shannon trying to say fool me once, shame on me, fool me twice, shame on you. mean, or vice versa. Look, I'm going to make fun of them for not being able to say it and I just fucked it up. my God. But I swear there's certain things that no housewife can get right. And that is one of them. The fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. But no housewife can get that one straight. But yeah, Gina couldn't get the mountain out of a molehill either.

Wendy (23:57.753)
same.

Wendy (24:06.777)
you

Wendy (24:10.985)
No. Don't do it. That's it.

Wendy (24:27.061)
Emily tells Tamar that she's not in any position to have an opinion about what Shannon says, which I thought, I can't believe you're telling her that because...

Kelli (24:35.725)
Yeah.

Wendy (24:39.693)
Like, of all people, Emily's saying that to Tamara. Emily then goes on to tell her that Gretchen has loose lips when she drinks a lot of Fireball. And she tells her the whole story about what she said about the recording and the record, you know, that they were in the house drinking and it was...

Kelli (24:44.396)
Right, right.

Wendy (25:05.407)
She said, according to Tamra, I was divorced from Simon and just started dating Eddie. And it was 15 years ago. As soon as she said 15 years ago, I was like, come on, like enough.

Kelli (25:20.834)
I'm telling you, she knew, everybody knew this was coming out. So they had all their ducks in a row. And I really think Emily and Heather were trying to get Gretchen drunk that night so she would bring it up.

Wendy (25:32.141)
Well, I mean, that's definitely what they were doing. Why else would you bring out Fireball? They definitely were. They definitely were. I mean, Emily so much has said it with the Fireball when she brought it in the car. And she said she's more fun.

Kelli (25:34.53)
They were trying to get her drunk, let's face it.

Kelli (25:45.932)
Yep. Yep.

Kelli (25:51.415)
And Emily does say that Gretchen said Tamra had an affair. But I don't remember Gretchen saying that. She didn't, she didn't say that unless it was off camera, which.

Wendy (26:03.467)
Yeah, right. That's possible. Who knows anymore?

Kelli (26:06.018)
Mm-hmm. Exactly. And we'll see you at the reunion.

Wendy (26:10.371)
Mm-hmm.

So then, Tamar said about the recording, because they said that supposedly Slade has the recording, and Tamar's like, well, bring it. I'd love to hear it, of the tryst. And she goes on to say that Gretchen had a stalker that she was in a relationship with this person. And Tamar called her out on cheating with this person. And then,

Somehow he wound up suing her and then she sued him and she won.

Kelli (26:49.838)
Tamara or Gretchen? Gretchen. So this must be that guy Jay. Remember? His name was Jay. Yeah. Because I remember on one of the reunions, Tamara told Andy, her voice got real low and she goes, I was getting ready for bed one night and out of the blue I get a phone call. And it's this guy Jay. he proceeds supposedly, allegedly, he proceeded to tell her that he's been sleeping with Gretchen for this long. They've been dating and her dating Jeff is just a

Wendy (26:51.321)
Gretchen Gretchen

Wendy (26:55.917)
I don't remember.

Kelli (27:19.15)
is just phony to be on the show and that's where Tamra got all this information from this guy Jay. Must be him. But I don't remember the stalking thing. I just remember, you know, I don't know. Who cares? It was 17 years ago.

Wendy (27:28.855)
That's

Wendy (27:35.619)
Well-

I know, that's the whole point. Like that's the whole point. And the weird part about this whole thing is, so in the very beginning, Gretchen tells us about the 500,000 that she won from her stalker, right? Then Tamra mentions this about the stalker. And then at the end, the stalker comes up. So you're right. Like she had to have known that this was coming. Like why else would she be bringing this up? Like this is...

Kelli (27:40.887)
Right.

Kelli (28:00.815)
for

Wendy (28:06.233)
I really can't stand this show. really can't.

Kelli (28:08.416)
It's too overproduced. This franchise is way too overproduced. And then you have somebody like Tamara, which I do give her credit. She's always one step ahead of her opponent, but it's just not fun to watch. It's just not fun to watch. It's like a cat and mouse game. Like I'll watch a, you know, I'll watch a Pink Panther movie if I want to watch this shit. I don't, I don't really want to, I just, I don't like it. I'm bored of it.

Wendy (28:23.371)
No, it's not!

Wendy (28:33.027)
Right.

Wendy (28:37.933)
Right.

Kelli (28:38.092)
And she keeps saying that Gretchen's obsessed with her. She's not obsessed with you, she's retaliating against you because you fuck with her, she fucks with you.

Wendy (28:46.113)
Right, that's it. That's exactly what it is.

Wendy (28:52.217)
So Emily's saying that Gretchen and Slater are always saying that they get all this unsolicited information about Tamra and they don't do anything with it. And then Emily says that Gretchen is no different than what she's accusing Tamra of doing. And it's so true. The two of them go back and forth at them. She's like, the student has become the master Yoda. So Tamra started it.

Kelli (29:14.574)
But here's my problem with Emily. Here's my problem. And Tamara will see this if she watches it back, which I don't think Tamara and Emily are on good terms right now.

Wendy (29:24.395)
not based on watch what happens live. Did you watch? Did you watch it?

Kelli (29:26.72)
Right, I did, I can't, I really can't stand Tamra, but anyway, and quite honestly, I think Andy was getting annoyed with her. Did you? Okay, but here's my problem with Emily. She would not let the recording studio story go, right? She kept pushing and pushing and pushing. And then she turns around and says, Slade was more than happy to share about Tamra.

Wendy (29:30.254)
Yeah.

Wendy (29:36.341)
definitely was. Yeah. No, we'll get there.

Wendy (29:44.739)
Right.

Wendy (29:54.019)
Right.

Kelli (29:54.167)
You kept pushing and pushing. She was actually the one who said to Gretchen, call Slade, call Slade, get Slade on the phone. I mean, Tamara, I mean, she must've seen it when she watched it back. Maybe that's, I don't know. I mean, maybe Tamara doesn't care about that because it got, it got at, you know, the plan worked if they knew that this was coming out, but Emily was pushing the story to come out.

Wendy (29:59.671)
Yep. She was. She was.

Wendy (30:20.811)
Yeah, I do not like all this producing. really don't. I don't.

Kelli (30:26.85)
She said Heather and I weren't asking anything about Tamra. But Emily totally was. Heather wasn't.

Wendy (30:32.896)
Yeah. No, Heather wasn't. Heather wasn't.

Then the ladies will enter into the shooting range and there's gonna be a competition. Whoever gets all their targets in the fastest time wins. Okay, that was kind of cute, but I mean, Tamra killed them. Yeah, so she won. She was really bad. I don't think Gretchen finished, did she? I don't think she even finished. Oh yeah, I wrote Gretchen doesn't finish. Oh, and she said actually.

Kelli (30:50.606)
Emily really sucked. Well, actually Gretchen was the worst.

Kelli (31:00.43)
Mm-mm. I did it. Yeah.

Wendy (31:05.292)
Gretchen doesn't vision it and she said, at least I look cute. okay. Come on.

Kelli (31:10.258)
but you didn't plan that outfit.

Kelli (31:16.328)
They give themselves away!

Wendy (31:16.377)
So stupid. So they sit down to have food in the middle of the little shooting range thing and there's champagne and fireball. Come on. Emily says, Gretchen, are you drinking fireball? And Gretchen says, yes. Tamara says, I hear fireball makes you talk a lot of shit. And Gretchen said, yeah, it does, unfortunately. Tamara said, what's your problem? Gretchen's like, I don't have a problem.

And then Tamra says, well, clearly you have a problem because I heard what went down.

And Emily, then Emily jumps in. Well, we were in LA and Heather interrupted. And I thought, why is Heather interrupting? And says, well, it started out as something silly. We're talking about the Pussycat Dolls and we're talking about her singing. And Gretchen said, yeah. Tamber tried to sing a song. And then Heather said, and we're all saying, let's hear the song. That's where Heather jumped in. And I'm like, why is Heather getting involved in this? Because.

Kelli (32:21.742)
Because Heather wants to keep her hands clean.

Wendy (32:22.071)
She, yeah.

Kelli (32:25.474)
Heather doesn't want any blame put on her. And quite honestly, she really shouldn't have any blame put on her because she was just going along with the conversation, she wasn't pushing it. But she definitely wants to keep her hands clean because she's scared of Tamara.

Wendy (32:32.375)
No, her hands are clean.

Wendy (32:40.089)
Well, she admitted that.

Kelli (32:41.79)
Mm-hmm. Well, she said she used to be, but she's not now, but it's very clear that she is.

Wendy (32:45.065)
Right. Chambers said, then it turned into I was having sex with, and then they bleep out his name. I was having an affair and they have me moaning in the background and Gretchen said, well, that's not what I said. And Heather said, well, Slade said that. I was like, God. And then Gretchen's like, well, if Slade said something stupid, then that's on him. Okay.

And this is where Tamar Lick loses it. She's like, this is the shit you've been doing to me for 12 effing years. I've had it. I've had it.

Wendy (33:23.629)
Tamar said he was ready to be on speed dial, which is right. mean, you know, he knew that this was coming. Like, why was he there in the middle? I mean, this was after they were out drinking, right?

Kelli (33:35.052)
Yep. Yep.

Wendy (33:40.371)
Meanwhile, the entire time, Heather, I don't know if you noticed this, she's actually eating her sandwich. And they kept, she was actually eating. And actually when she interrupted, when she interrupted, she was eating her sandwich. She was actually eating her sandwich. I couldn't believe it. kept writing it down because they kept, these two do not eat, Heather of all of them does not eat. And she actually interrupted while she was eating her sandwich. I thought so too.

Kelli (33:46.321)
I didn't notice.

Kelli (33:52.387)
Yeah.

Kelli (33:56.728)
Yeah, because these women do not like to eat on camera.

Right.

Kelli (34:05.432)
That's interesting. I love that Tamra flies off the handle screaming, yelling, throwing hands right after she just told Heather, I don't explode in public.

Wendy (34:19.019)
I know, I know, right? I know, I know.

Kelli (34:22.35)
That's all you do, like that's your shtick. If Shannon being clumsy is her shtick, your shtick is flying off the handle and running away. Running away is really her shtick.

Wendy (34:31.789)
Yeah.

Wendy (34:35.189)
And then what happened?

Kelli (34:38.04)
Well, I do love how Gretchen totally remained calm. She acknowledged she was wrong. You're right, I shouldn't have done it. Like she says to Gina, I shouldn't have done that. She totally stays calm. This is the best way to handle Tamra. For all current and future Real Housewives of Orange County Housewives, when you are being come at by Tamra, just remain calm, speak clearly, be articulate, just stay calm.

Wendy (34:47.096)
Mm-hmm.

Wendy (35:04.675)
Yeah.

Kelli (35:07.842)
because it drives her crazy.

Wendy (35:10.232)
Yeah.

Kelli (35:13.272)
Drives are crazy. That was pretty much it though, right? That's how it ended.

Wendy (35:18.654)
No, they... Okay, so then at the end...

Wendy (35:25.987)
So Gretchen says that, you know, I know all this shit about you and Tamara like throws her hands in the air and is like, what do you know about me? Gretchen says, you don't want me to talk. Tamara says, go ahead, talk. Then the producers ask Gretchen, what else do you know about Tamara? And Gretchen doesn't answer. She's like, next question. But then Tamara says, she's the one who tries to destroy people's lives. And Gretchen said, you're the one who's been sued for your lies. The person that you tried to get to lie about me, I sued and I won.

Now she's referring to the stalker.

Kelli (36:00.333)
She's got to be talking about this guy Jay

Wendy (36:03.159)
So Gretchen is saying that Tamar tried to get him to lie about her. And earlier about Gretchen, earlier Tamar said that she caught Gretchen cheating with this guy and she called her out on it. And then he sued her, meaning Gretchen, and then Gretchen sued him for stalking. So.

Kelli (36:09.356)
Right. About Gretchen.

Kelli (36:26.67)
Right, right. I don't know if he ever sued her. I don't know if Tamara's actually correct on that, but who knows?

Wendy (36:35.043)
I don't know, I don't know either, but it was so convoluted. Like I was like, what are they talking about?

Kelli (36:41.334)
And she got 500 grand from this guy?

Wendy (36:43.565)
That's, yeah. Yeah. And that's when Tamra, Tamra yells, you mean the guy that you were effing?

I was like, whoa. And then Tamra goes up to Gretchen, like gets right in her face and gives her the two middle fingers and tells her that she can F off. And she walks out, know, she's for 12 years she's been doing this to me and that's where it ends. I wanna go to the Watch What Happens Live now, just it's on the end of Miami, but I wanna jump to it now because some of the stuff that she said,

on Watch What Happens Live. Andy, the first question he asked her was like, what was her response to the recording studio rumor? She's like, that it's not true. And that Gretchen was being performative. I was like, what? And then she said, she's never slept with a celebrity, but she's been hit on by Denise Richards and she couldn't remember the other guy's name and it turned out to be George Lopez.

Kelli (37:51.085)
Right. But I wonder what Denise Richards thinks about that. I mean, listen, I think Denise is just a very flirty person. I don't know if she was necessarily hitting on Tamra.

Wendy (37:55.637)
I know. I'd be curious to see what Denise...

I do too. I do too.

Wendy (38:06.681)
Then one of the poll questions, I'm just gonna do the OC stuff. Whose side are you on, Gretchen or Tamra's? Tamra won this one. 57 % are on Tamra's side. Which honestly, yeah, it was surprising. Then the next thing was, has therapy changed Tamra? 91 % of the audience said no. And when Andy asked Tamra what she thought, she said, she's not about to change her personality, then she'll get fired. Andy's like,

Kelli (38:18.894)
That was surprising.

Wendy (38:36.665)
That's not true. And she's like, he's like, what do you mean? She's like, you don't have to be mean. Yeah. And he's like, that's crazy. That's a crazy thing to say. She's like, no, it isn't. Like in her mind, she believes it. She believes it. Yeah. Yeah. And then is Gretchen jealous of Tamra? 62 % of the people said no.

Kelli (38:40.492)
Yes, it is. She's like, yes, it is.

Kelli (38:50.414)
She believes it!

She believes she's being a good housewife. I think she sucks.

Kelli (39:05.326)
don't know what you other 40 % people are thinking. She's definitely not jealous of her. Retaliating 100%.

Wendy (39:08.377)
All right, so that was it about the.

Wendy (39:16.897)
Yeah, also, one of the questions was like, do you regret it? Like, do you regret saying that about Shannon's dad? And she said, no, she doesn't regret it. I was like, you've gotta be kidding. She still doesn't regret it. She doesn't think that she did anything wrong.

Kelli (39:29.164)
Yeah. You keep claiming that you want to have a friendship with this woman and you clearly hurt her by what you said. And now you're being asked if you regret it and you're saying no. So you don't want a friendship with her because whether you thought it was right or not to say it, you hurt her. So if she were your friend or someone you truly want to be your friend, you would feel bad that you hurt her and you would then regret.

Wendy (39:37.335)
Yeah.

Wendy (39:40.652)
Right.

Kelli (39:58.393)
doing that because it hurt her. See what I mean? She's just dumb. She's just dumb.

Wendy (40:00.973)
You would think.

Kelli (40:05.836)
Not too much going on up here.

Wendy (40:06.008)
Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, did you see I reposted it? The Sheena. So Sheena and Tamra are in a feud. No, so Sheena is in a feud with Tamra and Teddy about the whole Kiki and Gretchen situation. So Sheena put up this video, I think it was on Instagram, where she's like on a carousel and there's like this like

Kelli (40:18.914)
Them talking about her?

Wendy (40:39.029)
older looking wrinkly face person coming at her and it says underneath it like, point of view when you're asked to squash the beef or something like that at BravoCon. And it's totally, you have to look at it. I reposted it on ours. It's totally dissing Tamra. And.

Kelli (40:51.745)
I will.

Kelli (40:56.078)
Camera. Did you see that they're saying that Sheena Shay is not going to film for season three of The Valley because of some beef between her and Lala?

Wendy (41:05.579)
Well, I've seen those rumors, but I just saw Lala on Amazon Live and she was asked those questions, not about filming. They asked her, like, are you and Sheena still friends? And her first answer was, will Sheena's be in Sheena? And then they asked her another question and she gave more specifics. She's like, well, I just saw her the other day. She didn't go to Sosa's birthday party because she had something else to do.

I mean, I love her, you know what, we have our place together. And basically, I guess she doesn't agree with what's happening, but I think I also read someplace that it was over like a contract dispute that she's not filming. Like they couldn't.

Kelli (41:48.744)
I think that Sheena is making up some beef with Lala to stay relevant to make sure she does secure a spot in the valley. Because she thinks if she and Lala are beefing that people are gonna wanna watch them on the valley and that's gonna secure their spots. Talk about a schemer.

Wendy (42:07.605)
I mean, I guess it's possible. I guess anything's possible.

Kelli (42:10.966)
I think it's all bullshit because I see pictures of their girls together every day.

And if you were having issues with a friend, would you be having play dates with them?

Wendy (42:22.157)
Well, Lala hasn't confirmed that they're having issues though. You know what I'm saying?

Kelli (42:25.88)
But Sheena's alluding to it.

Wendy (42:31.801)
I don't know. mean.

Sheena's been making some shady comments. I mean, she made some shady comments about Katie. Sheena's been making a lot of shady comments.

Kelli (42:41.742)
Yeah, because she thinks that's what people want. Like she thinks it'll make her stay relevant and get her a spot on any show. And I do believe Tamra. I do believe when Tamra said Sheena wants to be on Real Housewives of Osay, I 100 % believe that.

Wendy (42:57.987)
Well, I believe that they're going to be put on the spot at BravoCon to squash the beef. I'm sure Andy's gonna pull them out and we'll have to wait and see. Like, is it a real thing? Is it? I don't know. I mean, it's gonna be here before we know it, BravoCon.

Kelli (43:10.434)
Right. Right.

Yeah. November.

Wendy (43:16.929)
Yeah, November.

All right, well, I don't have anything else for OC. So until next time, thank you for watching and listening. Please subscribe and give us five star reviews. Bye.

Kelli (43:27.447)
Bye.